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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Help in English.....Total Joke |
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| canukteacher wrote: |
I have spent much of this week looking for assistance in English, and to no avail.
I went to immigration in person. They were of no help. I kept being told "talk to your employer". They don't get it. My employer is angry at me and will not talk. The situation I'm in has been caused by my employer. The guy I did talk to could speak some English but not enough to understand my situation. |
Canukteacher says that the person at Immigration could speak English. So the problem he is addressing is not "assistance in English" but rather assistance in general. Yes, I know he writes, "but not enough to understand my situation." But it's possible that CT doesn't understand his own situation. Maybe the immigration officer understood, but the answer wasn't to CT's liking. It's amazing how many times people say "you don't understand me" when they really mean "that's not the answer I wanted to hear."
| canukteacher wrote: |
I phoned the Foreign Workers Council. Again, the person answering the phone had very limited English skills, and he is the English contact. He could not help me.
I phoned the Seoul Bar Association. The supposedly offer an English speaking service on Monday's between 1 and 5. I had to go down in person. The lawyer did not speak a word of English. The receptionist (who was a lovely young lady) translated my story to the lawyer. She had difficulty comprehending what I was saying, so who knows what the lawyer was actually told.
I have contacted the Canadian Embassy. These organizations are on their lists as providing legal assistance in English. They also provided a list of lawyers. I have contacted several and have been told that they do not deal with "English Teacher matters".
I also phoned a number that was on here. The guy could speak English,
but no help. He thought I should go to the dept of Education. |
So, only one person mentioned is said to "not speak a word of English." There are no complaints whatsoever about the English of the last person mentioned. This suggests again that the OP's complaint is not really about the level of English, but rather about the quality of assistance or possibly about whether or not they told him what he wanted to hear.
| canukteacher wrote: |
So guy and gals it seems we are on our own here when it comes to any service or assistance in English. God help us.
Lasly, I have contacted EFL Law. They have been very helpful, but still not answering my question.
CT |
I've discussed this last part in previous posts. Also, from the other thread CT started in the Question and Answer Forum, it's clear that he never had a real case.
Am I the only who has experienced, or knows somebody who has experienced, "the run-around" in the U.S. or some other country? I'm not talking about language skills at this point, I'm talking about the quality of service at government agencies. You call up agency X and they say, "Oh yes, that sounds horrible. Wish I could help you, but that's the jurisdiction of Agency Y." So you call up Agency Y and they say, "Oh yes, that used to be our jurisdiction, but that authority was recently transferred to Agency Z." Again you call Agency Z, and they say, "Oh, that's a very valid complaint. Unfortunately, we can't help with that issue. Agency X has ALWAYS been the only agency with authority to resolve your problem." Government agencies are rarely thought of as models of efficiency and competence. That's true in most countries.
I agree that language is a complicating factor in CT's case, but I don't think it's the main factor. |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 7:21 am Post subject: |
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| canukteacher wrote: |
Let me begin by saying.....this is not the question and answer forum. I did not post to have a question. anwered. I posted to warn teachers of what they are up against if they are trying to find legal help in English. This is only my experience. It sounds like you have had more success. I am sincerely pleased that you have.
CT |
True, this is not the question and answer forum. It's the General Discussion forum, so it would be nice if we could have a "Discussion" without being accused of intolerance. It seems to me like another example of the OP getting upset when he gets a response that's different from what he wanted to hear. |
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canukteacher
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Let me begin by saying that I stated a simple fact about my experience with EFL law......I think what I said was.........While they were helpful they did not answer my question. That is not a rant. It was simply a statement.
Secondly, as far as not hearing what I wanted to hear. That was not the case at all. I could not get an answer to my question period.
With the exception of immigration all of the agencies I contacted advertise that they provide services in English. They do not.
I did not post here to be attacked, or was I even looking for advice. My reason for posting here was to share my experience so that the next teacher or English speaker for that matter who tries to use services that are advertised as being in English not to be surprised when they are not.
CT |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| canukteacher wrote: |
| Let me begin by saying that I stated a simple fact about my experience with EFL law......I think what I said was.........While they were helpful they did not answer my question. That is not a rant. It was simply a statement. |
I wrote "when he mentions the efl-law guy in a rant about not being able to get help in English." "Rant" referred to the entire original post, not just the statement about EFL law. I agree that the one or two sentences about EFL-law do not constitute a rant. But the entire Original post does.
| canukteacher wrote: |
| Secondly, as far as not hearing what I wanted to hear. That was not the case at all. I could not get an answer to my question period. |
Actually, you did get answers. According to you, "He thought I should go to the dept of Education." That's not a great answer, but it's an answer. EFL-law obviously gave you answers if you found them helpful. I'm willing to bet that you got answers of some kind from the others.
| canukteacher wrote: |
With the exception of immigration all of the agencies I contacted advertise that they provide services in English. They do not.
I did not post here to be attacked, or was I even looking for advice. My reason for posting here was to share my experience so that the next teacher or English speaker for that matter who tries to use services that are advertised as being in English not to be surprised when they are not.
CT |
Nobody is attacking you. But you can't expect people to take what you say at face value. |
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canukteacher
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Again, my original post was not a rant, nor was it asking for advice. It was simply to warn other teachers of what they may be up against. I have made the warning, and now I am out of here. Perhaps those of you who continue to rant at me should do a bit of inner searching yourself.
Have a nice day. |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Here's what the OP wrote in the Question and Answer Forum.
| canukteacher wrote: |
Has anyone here found a good labor lawyer to file a law suit against your employer?
I gave notice. Was refused a letter of release. Then was offered a letter of release providing I left the school by June 30 (2 months before my contract finished). Basically they were offering to let me buy my release letter. I refused the June 30 offer, and said I would complete the contract. Then was terminated effective July 31st. They are now refusing severence.
Anyone know of a good lawyer?
Thanks in advance.
CT |
There's no description of illegal activity here.
Once you give notice of your resignation, the ball is then in the employer's court. The employer is allowed to choose your last day of service out of any day between the date you submit notice and the date you indicate as the last day you're willing to stay. The only complication is that the OP seems a little confused. There is a small possibility that he means that he gave notice that he did not want to renew the contract, in which case there is some illegal activity by the owner. However, if the OP is simply saying that he gave notice of not wanting to renew the contract, then there is no need for a letter of release. Therefore, I'm inclined to interpret it to mean that the OP gave notice of resignation prior to end of contract term.
Employers are not legally obligated to provide a letter of release.
Employees are not entitled to severance pay if they work for less than twelve months.
The situation sucks, but nothing can be done since the employer didn't break the law.
Lesson to Newbie TEFLers:
Just because you don't get the help you expect, that doesn't mean government officials' English language skills are to blame. It might mean that there wasn't a violation of law. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Employers are not legally obligated to provide a letter of release. |
I thought employers were legally obligated since this would enable the soon to be jobless teacher the ability to be hired elsewhere with a new visa without having to wait for the original visa to expire.
Please correct me if this is incorrect. |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Employers are not legally obligated to provide a letter of release. |
I thought employers were legally obligated since this would enable the soon to be jobless teacher the ability to be hired elsewhere with a new visa without having to wait for the original visa to expire.
Please correct me if this is incorrect. |
You're incorrect.
It's true that you're allowed to have only one visa sponsor at a time, so you can't get another job without a LOR until the first contract period expires.
However, the employer is not obligated to provide one. If the employer wants to provide one, great. If the employer doesn't want to provide one, he doesn't have to.
It's possible to get a new job without a LOR if you can prove to immigration that your employer violated Korean law, but there's no indication that CT's employer broke labor law.
Read the following eslcafe thread on letters of release. Be careful, though. There is a lot of misinformation in the first ten or so posts. Gord is the first person who provides good information.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=20222&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| prosodic wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Employers are not legally obligated to provide a letter of release. |
I thought employers were legally obligated since this would enable the soon to be jobless teacher the ability to be hired elsewhere with a new visa without having to wait for the original visa to expire.
Please correct me if this is incorrect. |
You're incorrect.
It's true that you're allowed to have only one visa sponsor at a time, so you can't get another job without a LOR until the first contract period expires.
However, the employer is not obligated to provide one. If the employer wants to provide one, great. If the employer doesn't want to provide one, he doesn't have to.
It's possible to get a new job without a LOR if you can prove to immigration that your employer violated Korean law, but there's no indication that CT's employer broke labor law.
Read the following eslcafe thread on letters of release. Be careful, though. There is a lot of misinformation in the first ten or so posts. Gord is the first person who provides good information.
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=20222&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 |
Wow...Less power to the people.
I didn't know that. Thanks for the info... |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Alyallen wrote,
"Wow...Less power to the people.
I didn't know that. Thanks for the info..."
Even less power to foreigners.
Foreigners Experience Difficulties in Living in Korea
"Even though Korea has achieved some degree of globalization in going abroad, it has still a long way to go for globalization in embracing foreigners inward," said foreigners residing in Korea. An official in the International Cooperation Division of Seoul City admitted, "The same complaints regarding visas, transportation, education, and environment are raised every year without being solved, due to the lack of cooperation from government agencies involved and their passive attitudes."
http://english.donga.com/srv/service.php3?biid=2004070522448 |
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canukteacher
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:09 am Post subject: |
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I was not breaking my contract. I had simply given the proper notice that I would not be renewing.
Ct |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| canukteacher wrote: |
I was not breaking my contract. I had simply given the proper notice that I would not be renewing.
Ct |
Is that how you worded it when you talked to immigration and everybody else? In my opinion, it's fairly natural to interpret "I gave notice and was denied a letter of release" as wanting to break the contract.
The Labor Relations Commission is the agency to go to about this. Cite Article 33 of the Labor Standards Act.
| Labor Standards Act wrote: |
Article 33 (Application for Remedy for Unfair Dismissal, etc.)
(1) If a worker is dismissed, laid off, suspended, transferred, or subject to other punitive actions or has his salary reduced by an employer without justifiable reason, the worker may request a remedy for it to the Labor Relations Commission. |
Keep in mind that the Labor Standards Act doesn't apply if the employer has fewer than five full-time employees.
Here's the contact information for the regional Labor Relations Commissions
Seoul:
Address) (135-702) 71 Nonhyeon-dong, Gangnam-gu, Seoul
Tel) 82-2-541-1192
Fax) 82-2-541-1198
Busan:
Address) (601-013)1154-6 Choryang 3-dong, Dong-gu, Busan
Tel) 82-51-462-9504
Fax) 82-51-462-8402
Incheon:
Address) (400-053) 1135-10 Guwol-dong, Namdong-gu, Incheon Tel) 82-32-441-7415
Fax) 82-32-441-7419
Gyeonggi Province:
Address) (440-302) 528-5 Yuljeon-dong, Janan-gu, Suwon-si, Gyeonggi-do
Tel) 82-31-271-3816
Fax) 82-31-271-0422
Gangwon Province:
Address) (200-092) 513-3 Onui-dong, Chuncheon-si, Gangwon-do
Tel) 82-33-254-2074
Fax) 82-33-256-0362
Northern Chungcheong Province:
Address) (361-823) 1427 Bunpyeong-dong, Heungdeok-gu, Cheongju-si, Chungcheongbuk-do
Tel) 82-43-285-0052
Fax) 82-43-285-6995
Southern Chungcheong Province:
Address) (302-173) 1303 Dunsan-dong, Seo-gu, Daejeon
Tel) 82-42-483-3181
Fax) 82-42-483-3184
Northern Jeolla Province:
Address) (561-708) 807-8 Inhu 1-ga, Deokjin-gu, Jeonju-si, Jeollapuk-do
Tel) 82-63-246-1502
Fax) 82-63-246-1504
Southern Jeolla Province:
Address) (641-010) 503-707, Seo-dong, Nam-gu, Gwangju
Tel) 82-55-266-1744
Fax) 82-55-281-9069
Northern Kyeongsang Province:
Address) (701-702) 107 Sincheon 3-dong, Dong-gu, Daegu
Tel) 82-53-752-9791
Fax) 82-53-752-2314
Southern Kyeongsang Province:
Address) (641-010) 73-6, Sangnam-dong, Changwon-si, Gyeongsangnam-do
Tel) 82-55-266-1744
Fax) 82-55-281-9069
Jeju Province:
Address) (690-732) 390 Ido 1-dong, Jeju-si, Jeju-do Jeju-do
Tel) 82-64-702-4043
Fax) 82-64-702-4046 |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2004 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| prosodic wrote: |
| canukteacher wrote: |
I was not breaking my contract. I had simply given the proper notice that I would not be renewing.
Ct |
Is that how you worded it when you talked to immigration and everybody else? In my opinion, it's fairly natural to interpret "I gave notice and was denied a letter of release" as wanting to break the contract. |
Lesson for newbie TEFLers:
The problem isn't always THEIR English.
Sometimes it's YOURS. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
I think he came OUT with the attitude that you are referring to. He didn't go IN with it. I think his attitude was a response to the service he got, not the other way around.
? |
So because of ONE negative experience his attitude turned from positive or neutral to "this beep hole"? Sorry, not buying this. |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2004 4:16 am Post subject: |
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I understood canuckteacher's situation just fine, including his being mistaken that he needed a letter of release even though he was finishing a contract. His school screwed him over once they found out he wasn't going to renew, so they ditched him short of finishing his contract to get out of paying him severence. I also understood his frustration with getting help in English for this problem. End of story. This was so hard to understand?
The level of petty navel-gazing/nit-picking by some of the posters on this thread is apalling. It's this kind of "gauntlet" attitude that makes people uncomfortable posting here so they leave. |
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