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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:09 pm Post subject: Korean's love affair with "As you know" |
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What is with the excessive usage of this expression in Korea?
Is there a popular Korean language equivalent to this sentence, which is why they use the english version a lot?
I hear this for all sorts of situations. From referring to information that I obviously know, to tidbits that they know that I don't know and they are describing to me.
Also, what do you think is a good replacement that I can teach them? I've been going with 'As you might know' or for obscure references- 'Did you know? Are you aware of?'
Is there anything that covers this better? I'm looking for something that stays far away from 'as you know', before it goes down the heavily travelled road of 'so-so', and 'just because'.
Last edited by chronicpride on Thu Jul 29, 2004 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Almost Koreans nowadays like to saying that. |
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TheMrCul
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Korea, finally...
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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I have honestly never heard this from a Korean before.
I think it comes from the Korean word Ah-Rass-O-Yo?
(Sorry for the bastardised Konglish but at Uni I can't type in Korean) |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Korean's love affair with "As you know" |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
| Is there a popular Korean language equivalent to this sentence, which is why they use the english version a lot? |
�ƽôٽ��� |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| TheMrCul wrote: |
I have honestly never heard this from a Korean before.
I think it comes from the Korean word Ah-Rass-O-Yo?
(Sorry for the bastardised Konglish but at Uni I can't type in Korean) |
I think that's more 'Do you know?', than 'As you know'.
| the_beaver wrote: |
| chronicpride wrote: |
| Is there a popular Korean language equivalent to this sentence, which is why they use the english version a lot? |
�ƽôٽ��� |
I just confirmed that. I asked around and they said that they use it a lot and it translates to 'As you know'.
Last edited by chronicpride on Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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ARGHH! The secretary at my office just said it to me again. I said, 'Where is the nearest place that I can take a bus to Gangneung?' 'As you know, you can go to Gangnam Express Bus Terminal.'
I swear to god, I'm going to start running a clinic at my work about this. |
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Saxiif
Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: Seongnam
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| chronicpride wrote: |
ARGHH! The secretary at my office just said it to me again. I said, 'Where is the nearest place that I can take a bus to Gangneung?' 'As you know, you can go to Gangnam Express Bus Terminal.'
I swear to god, I'm going to start running a clinic at my work about this. |
Your secretary speaks English at all 
count your blessings. |
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phaedrus
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| My wife says it's about manners. It's nice for people to suggest that the person they are talking to is very intelligent. |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| phaedrus wrote: |
| My wife says it's about manners. It's nice for people to suggest that the person they are talking to is very intelligent. |
I agree that this is the reason Koreans use the phrase. However, part of learning a language is also about learning the philosophy, or way of thinking, of a culture. While Korean culture sees this kind of a phrase as a suggestion that you think the listener is intelligent, most English speaking cultures do not. On the contrary, it can sound like an insulting suggestion that you're stupid for even asking.
When I teach composition, one of the first lessons is to avoid using words/phrase like "obviously," "of course," "clearly," or "as you know."
Here are the three reasons I give:
1. If the statement is not obvious to the audience, words like "obviously" make an argument less compelling because the reader disagrees about its obviousness.
2. Saying something is obvious can seem like an insult to the audience. If the reader does not know this obvious or commonplace information, the reader may feel stupid. Effective arguments treat the audience with respect.
3. Such adverbs indicate laziness in the writer. Saying something is obvious or common knowledge generally suggests that the writer is oversimplifying and taking an idea for granted without considering all the complexities surrounding the topic. If the writer were to devote some serious time pondering this "obvious" statement, he or she might change his or her mind.
For teaching conversation, I would add a fourth reason. It's the one I gave above about such a phrase making it sound like you think the listener is stupid for even asking such a question.
My obvious  suggestion to Chronic is not to teach alternatives to "As you know." Rather, I would teach students to avoid using any phrase like that. Feel free to use the reasons I listed above. |
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phaedrus
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: I'm comin' to get ya.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| prosodic wrote: |
| phaedrus wrote: |
| My wife says it's about manners. It's nice for people to suggest that the person they are talking to is very intelligent. |
I agree that this is the reason Koreans use the phrase. However, part of learning a language is also about learning the philosophy, or way of thinking, of a culture. While Korean culture sees this kind of a phrase as a suggestion that you think the listener is intelligent, most English speaking cultures do not. On the contrary, it can sound like an insulting suggestion that you're stupid for even asking.
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For sure. It's even more annoying to hear it at the hagwon.
"As you know, this Saturday there will be a field trip, and all teachers must attend."
"As you know, we can't pay you your severance."
"As you know, the Korean economy is bad, and we can't give you a raise."
"As you know, we just changed your schedule again."
In the case of hagwons they aren't really misusing the phrase, though. |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:17 am Post subject: |
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I am currently reading Skeletons from the Opera Closet by David L. Groover & Cecil C. Conner, Jr. On page 4, it says that "everybody knows" that Dafne by Jacopo Peri, first performed in 1598, was the first European opera.
I had understood that Orfeo by Claudio Monteverdi, first performed in 1607, was the first European opera. I am very sorry if I am the most stupid opera-lover in the world, but I think I can be corrected without being insulted. |
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prosodic
Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2004 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
I am currently reading Skeletons from the Opera Closet by David L. Groover & Cecil C. Conner, Jr. On page 4, it says that "everybody knows" that Dafne by Jacopo Peri, first performed in 1598, was the first European opera.
I had understood that Orfeo by Claudio Monteverdi, first performed in 1607, was the first European opera. I am very sorry if I am the most stupid opera-lover in the world, but I think I can be corrected without being insulted. |
Yes. It's too bad that neither David Groover nor Cecil Conner took my composition course. |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:57 pm Post subject: Re: Korean's love affair with "As you know" |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| �ƽôٽ��� |
Right. Also '���ݾ�, ...' and the -�ݾ� verb endings. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 10:28 am Post subject: Re: Korean's love affair with "As you know" |
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| gang ah jee wrote: |
| the_beaver wrote: |
| �ƽôٽ��� |
Right. Also '���ݾ�, ...' and the -�ݾ� verb endings. |
I think that is different eg. ���ݾ� means "I told you it was right!" "I was right after all!". If two people were arguing about whether the capital of the UK was London or Leicester, and then it was confirmed as London, the person who had claimed it was London could then say "���ݾ�!!!"
At least that what I have always believed |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: Korean's love affair with "As you know" |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| gang ah jee wrote: |
| the_beaver wrote: |
| �ƽôٽ��� |
Right. Also '���ݾ�, ...' and the -�ݾ� verb endings. |
I think that is different eg. ���ݾ� means "I told you it was right!" "I was right after all!". If two people were arguing about whether the capital of the UK was London or Leicester, and then it was confirmed as London, the person who had claimed it was London could then say "���ݾ�!!!"
At least that what I have always believed |
"As you know"  verb endings can have more than one meaning depending on the context.
As I understand it, gang ah jee is correct and the example you have given is correct. |
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