Korean Job Discussion Forums

[PatrickSiheung]

Actually they admitted that they've been having financial problems. I was told quite readily anyway...

I'm sure if you were professional about the whole thing and you're on good terms with your school's principal then you'd be able to get a release letter. Who knows... they may be happy to get rid of some teachers and lighten their financial burden a little bit. Just wait until their intensive session is over before you ask.

[Dalton]

So the answer is - maybe later, if we like you and you're nice about it?

[PatrickSiheung]

I guess that is the answer, yes. Unless you've acted like a total jack ass they have nothing to gain by refusing you a release letter. But who knows... people can be mean for no other reason than to be mean. To be perfectly honest, I can't imagine anyone ever gets a release letter. If I hired someone and they quit before their contract was up, forcing me to pay more expenses to get another teacher, I wouldn't give them a release letter.

But people do get release letters. It's not unheard of. Maybe you will get lucky. I think it's a bad idea to mention it right now though. Wait and see if you get your money on the 20th. If you do and you have no further problems, it would be foolish to leave. Ewha offers some pretty sweet schedules. It's a very light work load. I'm not too quick to give up that kind of job.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[PatrickSiheung]

Yes, I suppose you could definitely blackmail some directors. I'd be surprised if someone at Ewha was doing any of the above though.

On another note... although Ewha has been late with the last salary payment, and it's terrible from our point of view, it's nothing abnormal in Korea. They are definitely no worse than other schools. In fact, in so many ways they are infinitely better.

[Dalton]

I don't think so.

[PatrickSiheung]

You don't think what? That it's normal for people to be paid late in Korea? Or that Ewha is innocent of cheating teachers.

I haven't been at Ewha very long but I'd be surprised if any of the company owned schools were cheating the teachers. All taxes, pensions etc are handled at head office. It doesn't make sense that they would cheat one school and not another. I'm sure the franchised Ewhas are a different story though.

As far as late salary payments being the norm... well it is. Just talk to your Korean coworkers. I have many friends and family members here that have been in that situation countless times.

[Confused Canadian]

[PatrickSiheung]

Ok CC, you've misunderstood my take on some things.

I do not think "too bad" if you don't get a release letter. That's not what I was saying at all. I don't see how "Maybe you'll get lucky" means, "too bad."
I actually have a lot of sympathy for those that don't get release letters. I was merely suggesting that it may not be the best time to ask for one. Think for a second... if this whole thing blows over and from now on the teacher gets paid on time and in full, it would definitely be foolish to leave. Especially for those with families... it's not easy to move and relocate to another school. I got my pay without much difficulty. Why am I so special? Answer... I'm not! I'm not the only guy who can get his way. That's why I said hold out and don't make any rash decisions.

Yes, I think if you only got 30% of your pay, it is your fault. I managed to get my full pay and on time. It just depends on how you handle the situation. If you just ask for it or complain, then of course they aren't going to listen to you. All it took was one letter from me and I got my way.

My director was in the same situation as your own. She's really cool but couldn't do anything to help me. So did I keep complaining to her and practically begging head office to pay me? No... I took control of the situation and told head office that if they didn't pay me, there would be consequences.

I don't want to sound completely cold though. I have coworkers that didn't get paid full, and won't until the 20th. It sucks for them. But we all chose different ways to handle the situation.

Obviously you do know a lot more about Ewhas dealings than I do. But believe me, I have no illusions about how great a place it is.

Yes the intesive sessions are tough. But that's only two months a year. The rest of the time, we're coasting. Stop complaining. It's totally worth the trade off.

So you had troubles getting paid on time... how did you handle it? Did you barge up to head office and complain? Did you tell them how unfair it was to you? Did you complain to your school's director and fellow staff members? If so... it's no wonder you accomplised nothing. Actually I'm very surprised how quickly they caved when I mentioned the ministry of labor. Perhaps they weren't so easy to scare in your day?

I'll say it again... complaining to them and trying to convince them to give you your money is such a waste of time. That's why I said, that if you didn't get paid in full, it's your own fault. Instead of behaving like an angry and pathetic worker, begging for money, meet them eye to eye and show them you know the law and will take steps.

....

Okay, my eyes are open. Yes, I still think that if one or two schools close, it's just a drop in the bucket for them. Saying this has nothing to do with a carefree attitude. If my school closed, I would be pissed. I was responding to people's comments about the whole business being in trouble. I don't think all of Ewha will go down the tubes. I think they may close several schools, maybe, but that is just a small part of their company. They have over 50 branches. I don't see how that comment makes me "care free."

To finish I'll say that I have no love for Ewha or Brain Lee. If fact I think he's like most Korean businessmen in that he has the business sense of a 2 year old. Honestly... I don't understand how someone can build such a big company and screw up so royally doing it. Me thinking Ewha has a great schedule, which it does, has nothing to do with me loving the company itself.
I'd like to post more about my hate for the company but I don't have time.

[Ilsanman]

Sorry dude, I have to pick on one thing you said...

If someone receives 30% only it's their own fault?

Ok, so when I worked for EHWA, Brian Lee himself put me in charge of finances. In fact, he trusted me so much, that he never once lied to me. When it was paytime, I made sure everyone received the proper amount, and on time.

Oh wait...in a perfect world maybe.

So my other situation....I received 30% of my pay only. Feeling like it was my fault, I let it go. Man, I should have used my ESP a little more effectively. Or maybe I should have hijacked the boss in his office, and demanded my pay, and the pay for my co-workers, because by darn, Patrick from Shiheung told me if I don't, it's my fault, and darn it, in a perfect system, the KOrean law system is totally unbiased and totally perfect, and I will always get a fair chance.

Oh wait...Patrick is actually an idiot.

It's not my fault!!!

[PatrickSiheung]

Okay, you wanna start with the name calling, huh? Shows your age. That's great.

Perhaps you didn't get any warning about your pay? If you didn't, of course it's not your fault. But what you do, or fail to do, afterward is certainly your fault... or rather, your responsibility. I'm sure many with warning did nothing but complain to their directors. Not a smart thing to do... it's like banging your head against a wall. It won't get you anywhere.
So that would be your fault. Of course if you do all the right things and don't get what you deserve... *shrug* yer screwed. But at least you tried something more intelligent than threaten to quit.

Anyway, yeah my comment was a little harsh. It wasn't aimed at everyone, though. My comment was aimed at those who just complain and do nothing else. It's easy to run to your director and say you will quit if you don't get paid. *yawn* Foreigners are a dime a dozen. They can replace you. There are better ways to get what you want. That's why I said what I said.

If all people want to do is whine and complain about getting paid less rather than actually doing something about it, yes, it's your fault. Of course if you're just suddenly paid 30% without any warning, you can't be blamed. But when you have a heads up, even though it was only a couple of days for most people, there are things you can do other than just complain to your director - who probably isn't getting paid either.

I'll say it again, complaining to your school's director won't make a lick of difference. I know our director hasn't been paid in a while.

Staying cool about the whole thing (in front of the right people) and in a professional way pointing out the contract clauses and politely threatening to contact the labor board may be a little more effective than complaining like the immature foreigner many school owners believe us to be.
Better yet, actually go to the Ministry of Labor and have them call. I'm sure that's something Ewha wouldn't ignore.

See the difference between acting like an angry employee who just complains and someone who presents a case in a professional way?

I'm not saying don't complain either. Damn, I complained the most probably. But to the higher ups, I was firm and professional and it worked. Chances are that next month I'll have to do the same thing. But you know what?? Rather than complain, this time I will just go to the Ministry of Labor and have them call. Let them deal with it while I'm typing up my letter of resignation.

Some people sound like scared little children afraid of the big bad hagwon owner. Grow some balls, look them in the eye and do what you have to do.

[Newfoundlander]

I worked at this EWHA... I sensed something was wrong, I made other plans and left.

Now they owe me last months salary, and my deposit.... I'm guessing there is no way to get that back now, I haven't even recieved my 30%.... I am now forced to abandon my plan of getting my masters this year because of a lack of funds.... that is if i don't recieve the money by Monday.

In which case I shall march back to korea to get it back.

Did somebody say this was the case with all Ewha schools.

[Dalton]

People getting paid 30% of their pay is mangements fault. Don't blame the victim.

[PatrickSiheung]

To clarify, I blame victims for not taking action. I do blame them if all they do is whine and complain. In fact, I condemn anyone that allows themself to be pushed around. Of course the actual fact that management is telling them they can only pay 30% is not their fault... though, accepting the situation is.

Granted, there are people in unique situations. It sounds like Newfoundlander is out of the country. It would really suck to be in that position.

And NFL... yes, it's at all the schools. At least at the company owned schools. I'm not sure about the franchises.

[eamo]

I did a year with EWHA and had to write a lot of e-mails to get my security deposit back.

If I had not decided to return to Korea and told them that I would go to the hagwon in person to get it back I don't think they would ever have paid it.

My director was actually very nice and even ended up paying me from her own bank account. I think the problem was always getting money from HQ.

There are some good EWHA franchises out there with directors doing their best under difficult circumstances. The Headquarters, however, are ruthless. During my year there only negative decisions ever came from HQ. All stuff relating to giving teachers more work to do and even minor contract changes mid-contract.

Brian Lee was/is a lawyer when he's not running EWHA. It shows too. I always thought the guy was a real sneaky weasel.