Korean Job Discussion Forums

[McNasty]

It all started out innocently. My co-teacher had to leave the room to take care of some room remodeling plans. So without missing a beat I take over and continue with the lesson. Now keep in mind that this is a 6th grade elementary class.

It started rather smoothly and we went through the lesson and focussed on the main topic, in this case it was 'How was your vacation?'. We did some practice and repeat, but the class started to get a bit loud since my co-teacher was out of the room(the class is notorious in the school). I calm them down temporarily and we move along through the lesson and they start to get a bit more rowdy(talking loudly and a few kids start teasing each other by stealing books etc.) This time I had to raise my voice to settle them down in order to get back on track with the lesson. They toned it down but remained restless and just weren't into it. So we zipped through the rest(not that there was much to cover) so that I could change it up a bit and play a game of bingo with them.

As soon as I mentioned game all hell broke loose and it was chaos like I had never witnessed in my life. Kids were jumping out of there desks, pushing each other, yelling, it was way out of control. I lost my composure and the punishments were being handed out left, right, and center. Out of 45 students, 14 of them were at the front of the class with their hands up. That wasn't working so I started dishing out room cleaning assignments for entire groups(6 groups=8 kids per group). That slowed them down a bit but many of them didn't think I would follow through. That's when I wrote a sentence on the board and had everyone take out their books and start writing lines. The room suddenly went eerily silent and they clammed up. By this time, I was fuming and wouldn't let up on them and monitored their progress. I knew this was make it or break it with this class and I was not about to lose them this early in the semester. The entire class stayed for an additional 10 minutes as I repeatedly reminded them that if they continued to behave in this manner that this is what they could expect each class. There were a few whispers here and there but for the most part they were very quiet bickering at each other for being the cause of this predicament they were in. After 10 minutes I let them most of them go with the exception of the groups that were assigned to cleaning duty. They pissed and moaned the entire time that they were cleaning and some of the students were after each other for being responsible for getting them in trouble. In the end they cleaned the room quickly, since there were 16 of them to share the workload, and then I finally let the rest of them go.

What a freaking day from hell!!

It took me a while to let that one roll off. After I cooled off I began to evaluate the whole scenario and figure out where I made the mistake.

I decided that I needed to come up with a discipline system and fast. So immediatley after work I headed for the stationary store and picked up a bell(cheap motel 'ring for service' bell) and a whistle for emergencies. The plan is to go into class tomorrow armed to the teeth and inroduce the students to the behavior system. 1 ring=hands on mouth. 2 rings=mouth closed and head on the desk. 3 rings=lines for everyone. If all hell breaks loose again(and I pray it doesn't) they get the deafening whistle and that will be accompanied by after class cleaning duty and lines.

I have to admit that I didn't see that one coming. Oh well, it was a humbling experience that I hope I have learned from.

Has anyone else experienced a chaotic situation like the one I just described?

NEVER GIVE UP!!!

[inkoreaforgood]

Wow, freaky. Sounds like you have it under control though, or will soon. I've seen kids go crazy like that too. Not a pretty sight, reminds me of Lord of the Flies.

"I've got the conch! Ack...".

[McNasty]

Thanks inkoreaforgood,

I'll post my progress or lack there of after I teach that class again on Friday.

The hair is beginning to stand up on the back of my neck just thinking about the next class.

[peppermint]

beats my first day with the grade sixes actually. I had a mouse run though my classroom and you can imagine the chaos.

It'll get easier, don't worry. A quick warning though. In schools here, when a teacher is sick, unless it's planned ( surgery or whatever) or they'll be out for a while, they don't bother to get substitutes. Trying to teach a class that hasn't had a homeroom teacher all day is absolute hell.

[JongnoGuru]

I'm afraid I can't offer any answers, though the OP does raise some questions in my uninformed mind.

For those who've been in Korea more than a short while, have you noticed classroom discipline problems (at hagwons, high schools, wherever) improving, worsening or remaining constant over the years you've been teaching?

What I'm wondering specifically is, has there been the same general decline in social order, behaviour and respect for authority in Korea's schools that those of us who aren't teachers have witnessed in the broader society?

The growing dismissiveness of younger Koreans toward the older generation, citizens (drivers, for the most part) giving lip to police officers, wives demanding greater freedom and voice from husbands and in-laws (not a bad thing! just a breakdown of the "old order" -- please, don't flame me), public disrespect or outright distain toward the political & economic elite, etc.

Are these broader trends mirrored in Korea's classrooms? If so, is it your sense that discipline problems will worsen with time?

The Guru

[HamuHamu]

Argh...horrid memories of teaching 14 year olds in Thailand....

And I *never* gained decent control of them. There were a lot of outside factors affecting the lack of classroom control for me (I was the 3rd English teacher these students had been through in 4 months!!), I was the first female teacher they had had in 3 years, blah blah blah....

But the point is, I (mistakenly!) assumed the first day of torture was just the "first day" thing, and kept giving them another chance.....

I totally don't believe in writing lines, I just think that it is a waste of time, and my teaching education had taught me to find other "punishments that suit the crime" - until I met these students, and lines was the ONLY thing that worked. Now I tend to feel that there are WORSE ways to spend your time than writing lines, and writing lines is better than nothing.

A few of them got me -- one student got out three sheets of carbon paper and put them in the pages of his notebook, so essentially he had to write 1/3 of the # that other students wrote (I actually let him off on that one for creativity, but made it clear that it was a one time thing...and he didn't ever try it again....).

I do suggest with lines that you make it a really nice long sentence, so they can't write "I, I, I, I, I, I...won't, won't, won't, won't ...." down the side of the page. I liked ridiculous things like "This teacher has a true concern for my English education. It is very rude of me to show total disrespect and at the same time, I am not learning anything new by behaving so poorly." Or something incredibly long like that. Because face it, writing "I will not talk in class" does not get hammered into their head any more and make them not talk - it's not that the words make them change, it's the fact that they have to write monotonously over and over again. The more horrible that you make it for them, the harder they will work to avoid it.

I also put in the "every time I hear a voice above a whisper while you are writing lines results in 10 more sentences for EVERYBODY. This whole "everyone pays for the mistakes of one" was likely the best in gaining ANY little bits that I did. Make ALL of them clean the classroom when ONE group gets out of control. They will police each other, maybe not in class that day, but trust me, when lunch time comes, some of the "good" ones will lash out at their friends.

I think that you have it right on key - regardless if you think that your initial discipline is effective or not, the fact that you are going in the VERY NEXT CLASS with a clear discipline system (that they don't like) will keep them in line and help you "save face" in front of them.

And I have to say (and am embarrased at this, but will bite my lip and admit it...) I got to the point where I LIKED when they got out of control enough for me to assign lines, because it left me sitting quietly at the front of the room for 2 hours catching up on my piles upon piles of marking...

[rapier]

OP: One day they'll realise that they can simply say "NO" and refuse your punishments. What you gonna do then, huh? This is Korea

[McNasty]

If at first you...

Besides I have pretty thick skin and I have always been able to think of a solution.

We're not in Kansas anymore Toto. You gotta roll with the punches.

[Us in DC]

OP what a horror story. I am happy to hear you found something that worked for you.

While I agree with Rapier that there is no foul proof way to punish students for bad behavior my experience has been that setting up ground rules from the very first day is in most cases a good idea.

One of the first things I do is set-up my ten rules for a happy teacher and a happy class. Then I tell them what the punishements are. The worst punishment I have short of kicking them out of the class is taking their chair away and making them sit on the floor for the rest of the class. Would that be acceptable in Korea? I have never used it outside of the US. Here it works pretty well. Luckily my kids overseas have been complete angels. I was pretty lucky.

[adventureman]

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[adventureman]

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[Demophobe]

To the OP: Sounds like a rough go of it. Sorry to hear about that.

This discipline methods seem to work for me....

Ask for a black book and put each of the kid's name's in the book. Also have a yellow card and a red card in your shirt or back pocket for easy access. Explain that first comes the yellow card, next the red card, and finally they will get an "X" in the book. An "X" means that the individual has to stay for 10 minutes after class and clean the classroom with the teacher...not alone or you will just end up looking like a bad guy or as jerky as the Korean teachers can be at times. Three "X"s applies to the entire table...they will all clean after three "X"s are applied to any of their table members or to may collectively.

I have my students sitting at tables of 6, and I apply the card/check system to the entire table, as well as give a check to the "good group" members at the end of class. Three checks compiled for good behavior and they will get something...perhaps a candy bar or something...it's got to be more than a cheap-o penny candy. Using the card/check system against the whole table puts additional pressure on the clowns from the group to get it together and behave, as they all suffer for the bad one's actions.

You can decide if the slate is cleared from class to class or carried over. I carry the checks/Xs over, making it even tighter or more rewarding.

I always make sure to reward one or two groups per week (yes, it does cost me the price of two or 3 6-packs of Korean chocolate bars per week...about 4,000 won), so they see that it can be done, as well as keeping one or two groups per week after class to clean the room with me. Again, this will show that you mean what you say and follow-through.

If there is one who just doesn't care about candy or cleaning, then have a disciplinary meeting between yourself, his homeroom teacher and you. This will sort out a lot of problems.

The student's hate "X"s, hate black books, hate cleaning the classrooms and hate being percieved in groups as "bad" because of the actions of one bad apple. The pressure and scolding the group puts on the bad actor is mush more effective than anything I can do. They also hate being singled out, and this way, when they are singled out as the sole bad one in a group, I don't have to keep being the bad guy with verbal nagging....the students do it for me.

I also believe it's important to be consistent and unwavering. Korean teachers are very rigid and seem to have little mercy; ie; they will even punish a "good" student who steps over the line on a rare occasion. I have my "pets" in classes, but the same rules apply to them and even more so, as they know I expect more from them. They act as good deputies.

I dunno....it really works for me, and I am always alone in the classroom. They are just kids, so I do let them enjoy themselves, but as long as they know where the line is, it usually works out well.

[McNasty]

Thanks for all the tips and support from those that offered.

Demophobe,

I was thinking of setting something up like you described by making the students accountable for their misbehavior and encouraging the entire group to police themselves.

It sounds good theoretically but whether or not it will work in the real world is another story altogether.

Only time will tell...

I have to admit that discipline techniques that work for 12 students do not necessarily work for 45. The kids are the same though and test the teacher to see how much they can get away with. Interestingly enough my co-teacher witnessed my disciplining of the class and did not interfere at all. Mind you, she also did not step in when the class erupted as she was also in the class at that time as well. So now I will have to work on differentiating myself from my co-teacher so that the students recognize me as an equal to my Korean counterpart instead of just a sidekick.

[Grotto]

Day of observation grade 6

The teacher had to step out for a few minutes for whatever reason and asked me to take over. Things were going pretty smoothly when one of those giant black wasps flew into class. I basically ignored it but the kids were freaking out whenever it flew near anyone and jumping out of thier chairs. Things were starting to get out of hand.

Luckily the wasp buzzed me, my hand shot out grabbed it iin mid air and slammed it on the floor. I quickly stepped on it, killed it, picked it up and threw it in the waste paper basket.

Stunned silent disbelief flooded the classroom. I calmly continued on with the lesson like nothing had happened. When the Korean teacher returned she had a stunned look on her face probably because the kids were so quiet and being so attentive. Afterwards she asked me if I had punished any of the students...no....usually they are very bad she told me.

I was recieving many bows in the halls before this happened now it seems that I am gettng even more. Hopefully this will get me some mileage before they find out what a softy I really am

[pecan]

Mcnasty,

I have bit more time for a rewrite.

It is great to see that you are reflecting after your classes. It is such an important part of improving yourself as a teacher.

Free comments:

1) You never had to raise your voice to gain control. You chose to raise your voice.

2) You did not have to push through the material when you noticed that the students needed a change of pace.

3) By offering up a lame game like bingo on your first day with that class, you are only setting yourself up for greater failures in the future.

4) By deciding to institute a negative system (i.e. punishment system), instead of a positive rewards system or a balanced discipline system, you are only setting yourself up for failure.

Free advice:

1) Never raise your voice to gain control of a class. It can indicate a loss of control on your part, and the students will jump on it.

There are so many other ways to gain the attention of your students. Silence can work wonders, as well as eye contact with the students. Proximity is something else that should be considered.

2) Pace your classes. Consider leading a one-minute stretch with your students when they are becoming restless, especially at the end of the day.

The material is never more important than the condition of your students, as you can not force information into their heads!

3) Forget about bingo! Granted, this is a personal thing with me, as I have seen so many inept foreigners resort to bingo when they did not prepare enough for their classes.

There are so many other ways to motivate a class. Besides, do you really want your students to think that you will fold and resort to games during those types of situations.

I doubt that you want to be compared to a hagwon hack by your kids, so put the games on hold. It is too early in your stint.

4) Put a balanced discipline system into play and forget about what happened when you enter that class again.

Do not live in the past. Chalk it up as a bad day. The blame should be placed squarely on your shoulders.

Nut