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this whole "Reunification of Korea" argument
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 4:23 am    Post subject: this whole "Reunification of Korea" argument Reply with quote

Its always a common feeling among South Koreans.. that the USA wants a divided Korea because they want to watch China.. so thats why Korea hasn't reunified yet..

Anyhow, am I completely wrong about this.. but isn't the real reason that Korea hasn't reunified yet is because they have only had two North Korean leaders in the last 50+ years.. and neither one of them was at all excited about losing their power so that their people could become one country?

So is this all the fault of the USA?

One step further.. if USA ever did attack North Korea.. which they wouldn't.. but if they did.. and I hope they don't... but if that were to actually happen.. wouldn't Korea pretty much be all one country from that day forward.. and isn't this pretty much what the South Korean people want.. and if this is true.. then whats the problem that South Korean people have regarding Iraq.. and the possibility that the war might have also brought North Korea to the verge of the end?

Okay, we all agree that war is bad.. but seemingly.. the USA as South Korea's ally.. has pretty much just let the status quo go on forever because South Korea has this split personality regarding reunification plus no war to end things.. and it just perpetuates the intense status quo.. and realistically North Korea leaders are never going to just walk away from their power of leading a country..

Anyhow.. its hard to say who is at fault that there hasn't been reunification yet.. and that their is intense status quo.. I guess it would have better to let Korea lie dormant and in poverty like Vietnam for the last 50 years instead.. I am not sure if that would have been the right solution or not..

Anyhow.. just random thoughts on the issue.. if anyone else can enlighten or ramble on a bit more.. would be interesting to hear those thoughts as well..
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If North and South Korea were to unify anytime soon, the South's economy would be hurt big time. Can you imagine how much money needs to be poured into North Korea? Just look at West Germany and East Germany. West Germany was the 3rd largest economy in the world and East Germany was the most prosperous communist country in the world. Nevertheless, West Germany had to pour billions (and still is to some degree) into former East Germany. Eastern Germany still has a higher unemployment rate than the western areas of Germany. Some feel that unification is part of the reason the German economy has been in a rutt for awhile now.

Now just imagine that with Korea. South Korea's economy is pretty strong these days, but nothing compared to Germany. North Korea is the poorest country in Northeast Asia. Not a pretty picture. I don't think South Korea could afford to rebuild and fix North Korea's infrastructure. There obviously is also a big social gap between South Koreans and North Koreans. The avg. 20something yr old in South Korea has a completely different life from his/her peer in North Korea.

I'm not saying unification is a bad thing. I just think that if it ever happens, it will have to be a slow transition. I also think that outside sources will have to help as well- the two Koreas will find it very difficult to do it by themselves. Of course nothing is for certain.

As for the USA wanting a divided Korea, that seems a bit silly. The reason for the division is Kim Jung-Il and his cronies.
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bucheon bum wrote:
As for the USA wanting a divided Korea, that seems a bit silly. The reason for the division is Kim Jung-Il and his cronies.
I've heard this from countless students.. and wouldn't have even brought it up.. but I heard it in a bar yet again this weekend from a couple of Korean guys.. sheesh.. it never makes any sense to me either..
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posco's trumpet



Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Beneath the Underdog

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote



Last edited by posco's trumpet on Sun Dec 07, 2003 2:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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supernick



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. You just saved me a lot of typing.

A reunified Korea is a threat to Japan and probably Asia. It will have some economic power and military power driven by eagar Koreans who might just be happy to get some revenge. This is what some countries might be thinking, not my opinion of what would happen.

I do get tired of Koreans blaming all of their problems on the US and Japan, though the US has f$cked up a few things, the US did have good intentions. What hurts, is that many people from 17 different countries came to the South's side, and when I see these protesters, i want to remind them that they should not only blame the US for their freedom, but also the other 16 nations whose young people died.

I doubt much would really happen. I just thought I would point out some reasons why the situation is the way it is. Just let the Koreans be and let them sort things out. We are living with too much fear that prevents us from working things out in any reasonable way.


Last edited by supernick on Mon May 05, 2003 10:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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blackbird



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Location: Songtan

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, yeah, what he said.
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sickboy



Joined: 26 Jan 2003
Location: Miari Texas

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A reunified Korea is a threat to Japan and probably Asia. It will have some economic power and military power driven by eagar Koreans who might just be happy to get some revenge.


I dont think this is the case at all. I fully support bb's appraisal of the economic consequences of reunification. What has proven so difficult for the Germans would be an impossible nightmare for the Koreans. However, I think that the economic costs would pale in comparisson to the social costs of reunification. In 1990, the average East German had much more in common with a West German than a modern North Korean has with a Southerner. Im sure that this disparity increases by the day.

But what would the Southerners really feel if this did occur. First of all, all the hypothetical we love each other bollicks would probably last right up until the first soju bender then, then they would feel as I have on way too many occasions. Lets get this person out of my space.. right now!

Now, like many people on this board, I will say that Koreans aren't the friendliest of people to people who are different. What would the Southerners seriously do with 20 million people who've led controlled lives and don't know the first thing about the real world?

Say "I feel your pain?"

Put them to work? Exploit them?

Help them?

Or ignore them and pretend they give a damn? aka the status quo?

What does the average ajumma working for her pitance think when someone will do it for much, much less?

Will people from the North be able to settle freely across the peninsula? Or would they have to stay in their half?

It would probably become another (or the same) civil war.

-sick
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supernick



Joined: 24 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please, the quote is not what I think will happen; it's what other countries might be thinking.

I've said the same things to my Korean friends; the people in the North are very different from you, but they insist that they are of the same blood. Yes, you are made of the same material, but crafted from a different mold. I can't really think of a time when the Korean penisular was ever a united country without being controled by an outside nation. Being a united country is and always has been a pipe dream.
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The King of Kwangju



Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Location: New York City

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just spotted this thread. How many re-unification threads can this board support?
Tiger Beer wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
As for the USA wanting a divided Korea, that seems a bit silly. The reason for the division is Kim Jung-Il and his cronies.
I've heard this from countless students.. and wouldn't have even brought it up.. but I heard it in a bar yet again this weekend from a couple of Korean guys.. sheesh.. it never makes any sense to me either..

It seems odd to me that KJI and his "cronies," dangerous, half-cocked, and with nuclear weapons could escape the US' wrath for so long. If the US wanted to get rid of them and free the populace, they could in a second.

But as I pointed out in another thread, SK is a pretty strategic place for the US to have bases. And if K is reunified, all those US soldiers have to go somewhere, most likely Japan. And the Japanese won't be too happy with that, either.

It makes sense to me.
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Tiger Beer



Joined: 07 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The King of Kwangju wrote:
I just spotted this thread. How many re-unification threads can this board support?
Tiger Beer wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
As for the USA wanting a divided Korea, that seems a bit silly. The reason for the division is Kim Jung-Il and his cronies.
I've heard this from countless students.. and wouldn't have even brought it up.. but I heard it in a bar yet again this weekend from a couple of Korean guys.. sheesh.. it never makes any sense to me either..

It seems odd to me that KJI and his "cronies," dangerous, half-*beep*, and with nuclear weapons could escape the US' wrath for so long. If the US wanted to get rid of them and free the populace, they could in a second.

But as I pointed out in another thread, SK is a pretty strategic place for the US to have bases. And if K is reunified, all those US soldiers have to go somewhere, most likely Japan. And the Japanese won't be too happy with that, either.

It makes sense to me.
But a strategy for what? The US is going to invade China or something? Thats just what I don't understand.. why exactly is the US watching China and strategically in place to attack? In case Taiwan gets attacked or another ally? I guess its possible.. but realistically the US protects Japan as Japan has no army.. and Philippines has long been an ally as well.. so if the US is really in position to attack China or something.. then I guess the argument makes sense.. I guess.. but since the US is already busy protecting Japan, Philippines, South Korea, and Taiwan as allies.. then.. well.. I don't really understand why a divided Korea is in the USA's best interest..

In addition.. if its NOT in China's best interest to have a unified Korea.. then wouldn't the USA want a unified Korea to upset China.. if its really all because of China.

One additional note.. why don't the Chinese think the same as South Koreans that really the USA has this master plan to keep Korea separated to *beep* up the Chinese? I've never heard any Chinese ever say this before.. only the South Koreans..
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RR



Joined: 28 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 1:59 pm    Post subject: Koreans don't want unification either Reply with quote

Actually the whole thing is pretty simple. For everyone involved (Russia, China, Japan, American, South Korea), the status quo is great. Russia and China get influence in the North, the US has a reason to put troops and have a presence in the South. Japan gets US protection, without all the troops on Japanese soil.

If the Koreas unify the whole equation that has built up and been stable for 50 years, through China's opening up and the USSR's fall, could come crashing down.

The problem is that while everyone in the world can be rational about this the South Koreans can't, they're emotional about it. Understandably. So you get the split response. Sure, every Korean wants unification and unification must be a good thing. BUT: Hell nooooo! I don't wanna pay for it or really risk any of the progress that Korea has made in the last 50 years in a conflict to bring it about.

Now do the koreans (irrationally, but understandably emotionally) blame the US (or Japan, or...) for this?, sure. After all, Koreans naturally want to be one country, so it must be an outside country that causes seperation, right? Except that Koreans don't want unfication. Southerns don't wanna pay, and the Northern government doesn't want to loose power.

So there you are. I mean----who's gonna blame themselves when there is a big foreign army right in the middle of town to take the whipping?

RR
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indiercj



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Koreans don't want to pay the cost for the reunification or at least for the economical aids needed to stabilize the North. They voted for Kim Dae Jung, and elected Roh to continue pursuing the 'sunshine policy' overcoming all the buzz that major newspapers made to criticize it as an act of "pe ju gi". If most koreans did not want to pay anything they should have elected Lee instead but as we all know they did not.
I think the main reason some people suspect the US for not wanting the two Koreas to get close to each other is that throughout modern history the US government has been continuously supporting the right wing hard-liners including a couple of military dictators. It seems like the protection of free capitalism in the region has always been their #1 priority over democratic freedom or reunification.
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Ajarn Miguk



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: TDY As Assigned

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 3:58 pm    Post subject: Priorities Reply with quote

Quote:
It seems like the protection of free capitalism in the region has always been their #1 priority over democratic freedom or reunification.


Dear Indiercj,

Are you saying for South Koreans the level of free capitalism and democratic freedoms they have been able to achieve with the economic, military and political support of the U.S. are not priorities?

They do seem greater than what one sees north of the DMZ.
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Canadian Teacher



Joined: 22 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to wade into this morass but what the heck....

The only thing that we can be sure of is that the relationship between the USA and South Korea is undergoing fundamental change. All of Roh's pre-election bluster was just that: bluster. However, no American wants to be played the fool. Roh made a miscalculation in making America his patsy.

The plans for the reduction and withdrawal of USFK have been in the works for years. Last year's events have served to accelerate it.

I am all in favour of South Korea taking its own course in world affairs, that is its option as a soverign state; however, Koreans must be willing to accept the consequences of said actions without blaming others in order to be seen as a mature nation.
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blackbird



Joined: 28 Apr 2003
Location: Songtan

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2003 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not so sure that the Koreans would be as giving as you imply. I would like to see some links in support if you have them. It is an interesting question.

Quote:
I think the main reason some people suspect the US for not wanting the two Koreas to get close to each other is that throughout modern history the US government has been continuously supporting the right wing hard-liners including a couple of military dictators.


Well, lets look at Korean history. I am paraphrasing from several different articles. Some level of Chinese influence over Korea existed from the 7th to 13th centuries. Then in the War of 1231‑1261 the Mongols conquered Korea, a take‑over that prevailed until 1392, at which time China seized power, an annexation that was to be maintained for the next six centuries or so. Japan was unsuccessful in its attempt to conquer Korea in its War of 1592‑1598, but did succeed the next time around via the Sino‑Japanese War of 1894‑1895, soon thereafter designating Korea a "protectorate" and then, in 1910, an integral part of Japan, an annexation which was to last until the end of World War II in 1945.

In World War II, at the Cairo Conference (1943), the United States, Great Britain, and China promised Korea independence. At the end of the war Korea was arbitrarily divided into two zones as a temporary expedient; Soviet troops were north and Americans south of the line of lat. 38�N. The Soviet Union thwarted all UN efforts to hold elections and reunite the country under one government.

In 1948 two separate regimes were formally established�the Republic of Korea in the South, and the Democratic People's Republic under Communist rule in the North. By mid-1949 all Soviet and American troops were withdrawn, and two rival Korean governments were in operation, each eager to unify the country under its own rule. In June, 1950, the North Korean army launched a surprise attack against South Korea, initiating the Korean War, and with it, severe hardship, loss of life, and enormous devastation.

My god! The Korean people are right! If the US had just left Korea alone they could have had their longed for reunification in 1950. Pocking USA!
It gets worse. The war mongering USA will not leave. They suspect that North Korea still wants reunification and are desperate to keep the Korean people apart. The USA is afraid that a unified Korea will rival Amercia as the world's next superpower. Here is more evidence of the North's obvious cry for reunification.

Since the end of the Korean War, North Korea has used subversion and sabotage against South Korea in an effort to promote reunification.....
Here is the link. It is too long to post.

http://www.1upinfo.com/country-guide-study/north-korea/north-korea157.html

North Korea has repeatedly tried to solve the problems of reunification. Why, they have even attemped to kill the South Korean president on numerous occasions. This was done to head off any possible two leader problems a reunification might face. How thoughtful.

America still resists. Since the War they have instituted a dastardly new policy. They have put Americans between Seoul and the North Korean border! How far will they go to keep us apart! American has had so many South Koreans trying to immigrate to the North that they were forced to give the American border guards guns to prevent the loss of the South Korean labor force.


Some people say that America resists reunification because of the risk to South Korea's unique and amazing ecomomy. This shows how sneaky the Americans are. Even thought from 1950 - 1980 there was no Korean economy, the Americans knew that given enough time the amazing properties of Kimchi would would ensure the success of the Korean export market and the ecomomy would skyrocket!

Quote:
It seems like the protection of free capitalism in the region has always been their #1 priority over democratic freedom or reunification.


Thats it! How could I have not seen it. America invests 50 years of sweat and blood on a country that has not known freedom in hundreds of years as a capitalistic attempt to corner the massive 1950's Kimchi market. Shocked

Fixed a link and quote. - CM
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