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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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 Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| I do, however, believe that we should not just "lump it" because we are "guests" here. |
Absolutely we shouldn't, and I, like you, don't agree with Mr. Pecan. But I don't think his argument is entirely ridiulous (however, I vehemently disagree with his implicit suggestion that Ilsanman somehow invited trouble) since for the most part we don't encounter such negativity from the vast majority of people, the thousands of people we pass on the street who don't give us a second look. So one needs to place the root of his argument in context of a general situation.
Thus, I don't think he's being a Korean apologist, just someone who wants to avoid getting into run-ins with sketchy people, period. I imagine he would advocate doing the same thing, walking away, if he runs into a similar train-looney in his own country, someone of the same nationality or ethnicity.
I guess my point is that we don't need to take Ilsanman's experience and turn it into a foreigner rights issue. I remember being threatened in a club in Blackpool once because of my southern accent, by some shaun-headed gorrilla with a tattoo on his face, it was a beastly experience. Serves me right for going to Blackpool I suppose, sketchy corner of England.
I stood up for myself then, as I have done here, the two times I've been confronted in Korea. But I perceive the experiences as being the same, being singled out for being different, by people whose horizons aren't ever very far from them.
Deal with it how you will, it's only a sad barstard with nothing better to do. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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we make more money than the avg. korean and have the choice and ability to leave or stay whenever we choose to.
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Not really, we make more money than the average starting wage for a fresh out of uni dude starting at a company. They quickly overtake us, and we have no real options for salary increase. It's not viable to stay here a life time as a teacher and expect it to be a career. |
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JAMZ
Joined: 18 May 2004
Location: Ori Station, Bundang
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Quote: |
we make more money than the avg. korean and have the choice and ability to leave or stay whenever we choose to.
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Not really, we make more money than the average starting wage for a fresh out of uni dude starting at a company. They quickly overtake us, and we have no real options for salary increase. It's not viable to stay here a life time as a teacher and expect it to be a career. |
here read this article... tell me if you still think we dont get paid more after reading it
http://www.koilaf.org/what_view.php?num=290 |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Here's what I do: Ignore 99.99999% of verbal abuse (they've got to say something extraordinarily bad AND catch me on a very bad day as well to get a rise out of me with words). I learned that in Jakarta. You can't walk down a street there without some frustrated *beep* yelling "Hey! F-YOU!". One day I realised I was WASTING so much time and energy on these guys. I was giving up so much of the good stuff just so I could spend my time going out and doing the penile tango day-in day-out.
I actually find Koreans much less trouble in this regard (maybe I'm just lucky). Anyway, ignore verbal abuse, but if physical contact is made, I face them, and get into a subtle kind of fighting stance (unless I'm clearly outmatched). I don't do it in a showy, or a hot-blooded, or an aggressive way. I don't stare them down. I don't make a scene. I just send a simple physical message that if they jump, I'm gonna jump back, but I don't want to have to do it. I haven't been in a fight for years thanks to this tactic. It allows the aggressor to back down quickly before anyone notices, and we both get to keep our pride in tact.
Oh. I still haven't figured out what to do if I'm clearly outmatched. Beat a hasty retreat I suppose. |
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trevorcollins
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:50 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| Quote: |
we make more money than the avg. korean and have the choice and ability to leave or stay whenever we choose to.
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Not really, we make more money than the average starting wage for a fresh out of uni dude starting at a company. They quickly overtake us, and we have no real options for salary increase. It's not viable to stay here a life time as a teacher and expect it to be a career. |
Consider though you're working a part time job while their lives essentially revolve around work and their adjoshi boss's buffoonish whims.
Last edited by trevorcollins on Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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trevorcollins
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:52 am Post subject: Re: yes |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
I know if I was not alone, or if I was a big guy like Sparkz or someone, it would never have happened at all.
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Yeah....? Well I heard a rumor that Sparkx loses his supernatural strength when he sets foot in a raft on a river. Bear this in mind if ever the need to kick his ass arises.  |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| here read this article... tell me if you still think we dont get paid more after reading it |
Right then, we get paid more. Never let it be said I can't admit when I'm wrong ... |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:19 am Post subject: yes |
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| I definitely make more than that guy, and we don't need a newspaper article to prove that. |
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sparkx
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: thekimchipot.com
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah....? Well I heard a rumor that Sparkx loses his supernatural strength when he sets foot in a raft on a river. Bear this in mind if ever the need to kick his ass arises. |
Yep, its true. Korean rivers are like kryptonite to me for some odd reason. Peruvian mountains, however, are the source of my strength.
Never *beep* with me on a mountain in Peru! |
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dnamkung
Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Location: Victoria British Columbia
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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i definitely wouldn't argue that the avg teacher is making more than the avg korean..
but most people that work in the city, kangnam, myeongdong, etc.. are making more on avg for sure than teachers. You have to take in account that people in that labour survey linked above, are from shigol "enterprises consisting of 5 or more people" as well. The main way teachers benefit is definitely the lifestyle, part time work with full time pay. And by part time, it is REALLY part time in korea. My cousin started at one of korea's largest communications firms a year ago. He's been putting in 100 hours a week ever since. |
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Circus Monkey
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: In my coconut tree
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| JAMZ wrote: |
hehe no I'm not korean and no i dont feel obligated... its just i've been reading this site alot and just see alot of animosity here on this board towards the ignorant koreans out there.... and i think every now and then we got to take a step back and re-evaluate ourselves and the big picture everytime we have a negative experience.... there's alot of other factors at work here as to why Korean culture is the way it is and sometimes we need to understand where they're coming from lest we become anit-korean along the same vein as the korean guy in the subway being anti-foreigner.
Sorry if my being analytical bothers anyone... its just in my nature to do this stuff... i studied cross cultural psychology in university |
So, we take this "step back" and realize what, exactly? Tell me what you think can excuse the behaviour? Culture? |
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scarneck
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| JAMZ wrote: |
| omg i didnt mean its ok for them to abuse foreigners.... all i meant by that statement is that if you look at it from the korean's perspective (not most koreans of course), considering their history, its not inconceivable to see why some koreans are opposed to a foreign pressence in their country..... like i said i dont think its right im just simply stating what an explanation for this type of behavior may be. |
So, if I'm opposed to being an 'unwilling protector' (which I'm not, I want to be here), then it's understandable if I bitch slap a young Korean man for not having the stones to take my place in the foxhole?...They should be upset with their own government because of their policies. Take action on who really needs it...not the dude just rolling on the tube...
with that said, I can see your point. Fine line between an explaination and and excuse. |
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skinhead
Joined: 11 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| manlyboy wrote: |
| Anyway, ignore verbal abuse, but if physical contact is made ..... I just send a simple physical message that if they jump, I'm gonna jump back. |
Ya mon. Sticks and stones. If they want to apply more than hot air, there's a simple little rule to live by.
And Jeezus said unto them, "turn the other cheek and more often than not you'll get your arse kicked. Brothers, follow me: I don't give people sh** and I don't take sh**. I ain't in the sh** business. Apply what you have learned. If the man f***s with you physically, strike like the serpent until the dog backs down. Be true to thine own good and healthy constitution. And don't piss on yerself."
Gospel of St Dave, Ch4 V44
Ilsanman, I think you showed great restraint without losing too much face. Most of us would have gone medieval on him and that (Pecan) usually ends in tears. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:38 am Post subject: |
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I'm usually pretty aware of people around me and what the mood is. I usually make eye contact with people if I walk onto the subway or whatever, so I generally know if there are any people to avoid right off the bat. If I'm pushed into a corner, most often a sustained serious direct look is enough to shut the person up. There is always a set of signals, a build up to something happening, that you can avert by sending your own signals.
Never been randomly hit with a door handle though. In which case, that invites an equally physical response.
some people are amazingly unaware though. They are full of themselves, and will blunder into easilly avoidable scenarios time and again, because they are the only person existing on their planet. |
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