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Cedar
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Location: In front of my computer, again.
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 Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Having lived in Daegu for many years, what is wrong with saying Day (night, day) goo (orange goo-ey thing)? And please don't tell me to learn to read Korean... been doing that for quite a darn long time now... |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:24 am Post subject: |
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���� ��Ȳ�������ϴ�. 3�� �̻� �ѱ����� ��Ҵ� ��.. �� ����ģ���� �ѱ۷� ���� �ֽ��ϴ�. �ֳ��ϸ� �� �ѱ��� �� �� ���� �����Դϴ�.
 The shame. Actually, I intend to learn the Korean alphabet tomorrow. |
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J.B. Clamence
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Cedar wrote: |
| what is wrong with saying Day (night, day) goo (orange goo-ey thing)?... |
Nothing at all. What's wrong with having an accent, especially when you're speaking English? Every Korean I know has one. So what? But I think what the other poster was getting at is that the "d" and "g" should sound different from the English "d" and "g" when pronouncing "Daegu", a very petty nitpick in my opinion. I always say Day-goo. Pronouncing it any more correctly while speaking English just sounds unnatural (for an English conversation), not to mention incredibly pretentious. After all, how should one say "Mexico" when speaking English? Should one pronounce it "Mehico" in all situations? How haughty is that? |
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Cedar
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Location: In front of my computer, again.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:04 am Post subject: |
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You really think the first guy was just nitpicking about the T/D thing? How could that make someone grind their teeth??? I mean, let's be realistic here... a little screwed up pronunciation is one thing but NOT MAKING AN EFFORT to learn Korean, that is another thing. I think all of us who can speak/read Korean have an obligation to be encouraging to other foreign learners (if at least by not shooting down their efforts). The Mexico, Mehico point is very apt. And as far as I'm concerned hearing Day-goo is a heck of a lot better than Tay-goo! (Tay-goo speakers are always people who've watched too much AFN, or just read it with a T and never learned it's something like an aspirated D (we don't have that in English, of course).
If there is anything I love it's a student of any kind who is TRYING. (For example an informal Korean learner in the country as an ESL teacher).
And if there is anything that really drives me nuts it's the crowd of "I've been in Korea for 6 years and married a Korean and have a kid but never learned the language cause my honey speaks such good English." |
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seoulmon
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Mashimaro wrote: |
Learning to read and use basic sentences is so empowering. Once you stop relying on korean co-workers, friends/girlfriends becomes so much less stressful.
Having a korean hold your hand the whole time might seem easier on the surface but I usually found trying to explain them in english what I needed help with, was more frustrating than learning to say it in korean!
As an added bonus you can turn the tides on people leaching english from you and start leaching korean from them.. though you may find the one's happy to speak english to you may not so willingly return the favour of speaking korean to you.. I've been pretty lucky in that regard, all my friends have seemed happy to indulge my stuttering, shambolic version of korean. |
Right! My first girlfriend was always trying to make life "easy" for me. Whenever I started in a conversation with someone in Korean she'd butt in and say "Oh such and such (Korean person) speaks English."
Eventually I had to break up with her. My current GF speaks no Enlgish.
I have this thing about people treating me like a 5 year old. it's really a problem because I tend to over react. I wil treat a Korean guy like gutter puke when he tries to translate for me or "help" me out.
Last edited by seoulmon on Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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seoulmon
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| seoulmon wrote: |
| Mashimaro wrote: |
Learning to read and use basic sentences is so empowering. Once you stop relying on korean co-workers, friends/girlfriends becomes so much less stressful.
Having a korean hold your hand the whole time might seem easier on the surface but I usually found trying to explain them in english what I needed help with, was more frustrating than learning to say it in korean!
As an added bonus you can turn the tides on people leaching english from you and start leaching korean from them.. though you may find the one's happy to speak english to you may not so willingly return the favour of speaking korean to you.. I've been pretty lucky in that regard, all my friends have seemed happy to indulge my stuttering, shambolic version of korean. |
Right! My first girlfriend was always trying to make life easy for me. Whenever I started in a conversation with someone in Korean she'd butt in and say "Oh such and such (Korean person) speaks English."
Eventually I had to break up with her. My current GF speaks no Enlgish.
I have this thing about people treating me like a 5 year old. it's really a problem because I tend to over react. I wil treat a Korean guy like gutter puke when he tries to translate for me or "help" me out. |
...BUT, in my own defence:
Have you noticed how people who live in Japanese seem to pick up (atelast) a woking ability of Japanese. Many times they are even far above this level. On the other hand foreigners living in K-land rarely speak Korean. Some of these people have lived in Korea for 6 years, 7 years, 8 years and they don't speak SQUAT (insert sound of bug being squashed). Sure they know "hello" and how to say "hurry hurry."
But they just don't speak the language! |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 8:51 am Post subject: yes |
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| seoulmon wrote: |
| seoulmon wrote: |
| Mashimaro wrote: |
Learning to read and use basic sentences is so empowering. Once you stop relying on korean co-workers, friends/girlfriends becomes so much less stressful.
Having a korean hold your hand the whole time might seem easier on the surface but I usually found trying to explain them in english what I needed help with, was more frustrating than learning to say it in korean!
As an added bonus you can turn the tides on people leaching english from you and start leaching korean from them.. though you may find the one's happy to speak english to you may not so willingly return the favour of speaking korean to you.. I've been pretty lucky in that regard, all my friends have seemed happy to indulge my stuttering, shambolic version of korean. |
Right! My first girlfriend was always trying to make life easy for me. Whenever I started in a conversation with someone in Korean she'd butt in and say "Oh such and such (Korean person) speaks English."
Eventually I had to break up with her. My current GF speaks no Enlgish.
I have this thing about people treating me like a 5 year old. it's really a problem because I tend to over react. I wil treat a Korean guy like gutter puke when he tries to translate for me or "help" me out. |
...BUT, in my own defence:
Have you noticed how people who live in Japanese seem to pick up (atelast) a woking ability of Japanese. Many times they are even far above this level. On the other hand foreigners living in K-land rarely speak Korean. Some of these people have lived in Korea for 6 years, 7 years, 8 years and they don't speak SQUAT (insert sound of bug being squashed). Sure they know "hello" and how to say "hurry hurry."
But they just don't speak the language! |
Not so. I know many a foreigner who speaks a respectable level of Korean. Some do not speak well as compared to how long they have lived here, but it's something nonetheless.
Maybe it's just the people you know. |
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Mashimaro
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: location, location
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: yes |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
Not so. I know many a foreigner who speaks a respectable level of Korean. Some do not speak well as compared to how long they have lived here, but it's something nonetheless.
Maybe it's just the people you know. |
What percentage of foreigners speak good korean? And I'm talking about people from western countries. If you say anywhere much above 1% you are dreaming. Are you also inferring that westerner's korean is comparable to westerner's japanase?
Last edited by Mashimaro on Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
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seoulmon
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: yes |
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| Ilsanman wrote: |
| seoulmon wrote: |
| seoulmon wrote: |
| Mashimaro wrote: |
Learning to read and use basic sentences is so empowering. Once you stop relying on korean co-workers, friends/girlfriends becomes so much less stressful.
Having a korean hold your hand the whole time might seem easier on the surface but I usually found trying to explain them in english what I needed help with, was more frustrating than learning to say it in korean!
As an added bonus you can turn the tides on people leaching english from you and start leaching korean from them.. though you may find the one's happy to speak english to you may not so willingly return the favour of speaking korean to you.. I've been pretty lucky in that regard, all my friends have seemed happy to indulge my stuttering, shambolic version of korean. |
Right! My first girlfriend was always trying to make life easy for me. Whenever I started in a conversation with someone in Korean she'd butt in and say "Oh such and such (Korean person) speaks English."
Eventually I had to break up with her. My current GF speaks no Enlgish.
I have this thing about people treating me like a 5 year old. it's really a problem because I tend to over react. I wil treat a Korean guy like gutter puke when he tries to translate for me or "help" me out. |
...BUT, in my own defence:
Have you noticed how people who live in Japanese seem to pick up (atelast) a woking ability of Japanese. Many times they are even far above this level. On the other hand foreigners living in K-land rarely speak Korean. Some of these people have lived in Korea for 6 years, 7 years, 8 years and they don't speak SQUAT (insert sound of bug being squashed). Sure they know "hello" and how to say "hurry hurry."
But they just don't speak the language! |
Not so. I know many a foreigner who speaks a respectable level of Korean. Some do not speak well as compared to how long they have lived here, but it's something nonetheless.
Maybe it's just the people you know. |
"...it's something noentheless."
I'm not sure what that means.
I think your talking about ordering food. I guess then, sure most people can get by. I'm talking about having a conversation, expressing ideas, going out to coffee and being able to share ideas.
My basic point was that most foreigners in Japan have a conversational ability in Japanese while a large majority of foreigners in Korea can not. I still stand by that... |
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matthewwoodford
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Location, location, location.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| If that's true about Japanese I imagine at least one reason is that Japanese is easier for westerners to pronounce, and if you can pronounce a word you can also remember it. |
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J.B. Clamence
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| matthewwoodford wrote: |
| If that's true about Japanese I imagine at least one reason is that Japanese is easier for westerners to pronounce, and if you can pronounce a word you can also remember it. |
I agree. As far as speaking and listening, I find Japanese to be much, much easier than Korean. In fact, after living in Korea for 1.5 years, and never having lived in Japan, my Japanese is actually much better than my Korean. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 2:14 am Post subject: |
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| J.B. Clamence wrote: |
| matthewwoodford wrote: |
| If that's true about Japanese I imagine at least one reason is that Japanese is easier for westerners to pronounce, and if you can pronounce a word you can also remember it. |
I agree. As far as speaking and listening, I find Japanese to be much, much easier than Korean. In fact, after living in Korea for 1.5 years, and never having lived in Japan, my Japanese is actually much better than my Korean. |
Even if I had not received top scores on 3 foreign lang. on the MLA "Batteries", I still would never have any desire to learn Korean.
I have no desire to learn a languge that: (a) has to be "screamed" (in 6 years I have only know 5/10,000 koreans who can speak Korean without screaming their heads off) and (b) is so hard to understand that when 2 natives are talking they have say "hunh" every 5 seconds and have the other repete the same thing 2-3 times.
And, I can see why natives have to repete over and over to each other the same thing. 99.99% of them speak so garbbled. Like in "My Fair Lady" when she had to try and speak with a mouth full of pebbles and not swallow or spit them out.
I do not know why they don't try to speak more clearly. I mean, in other countries, if people can not be understood by each other, they consider it a problem and that is why they have, for example, speech therapists, etc. I wonder if such a thing existes in Korea?
After 6 years, I still can rarely pick out an individual sound, but, for example, when one of my Chinese friends says something in Chinese I can "catch" the pronunciation and repete it back correctly.
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:15 am Post subject: Re: yes |
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| seoulmon wrote: |
I think your talking about ordering food. I guess then, sure most people can get by. I'm talking about having a conversation, expressing ideas, going out to coffee and being able to share ideas.
My basic point was that most foreigners in Japan have a conversational ability in Japanese while a large majority of foreigners in Korea can not. I still stand by that... |
True! You rarely find many westerners that are able to speak Korean fluently, which is why the ones that can have become minor celebrities.
I dont think that Japanese is easier than Korean either. It is true that Japanese pronunciation is easier, but the ease of the hangul writing system means that students can learn Korean quite quickly.
I seriously doubt even 1% of foreigners in Korea can hold a conversation. How many people on this board can? |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 3:37 am Post subject: Re: yes |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| seoulmon wrote: |
I think your talking about ordering food. I guess then, sure most people can get by. I'm talking about having a conversation, expressing ideas, going out to coffee and being able to share ideas.
My basic point was that most foreigners in Japan have a conversational ability in Japanese while a large majority of foreigners in Korea can not. I still stand by that... |
True! You rarely find many westerners that are able to speak Korean fluently, which is why the ones that can have become minor celebrities.
I dont think that Japanese is easier than Korean either. It is true that Japanese pronunciation is easier, but the ease of the hangul writing system means that students can learn Korean quite quickly.
I seriously doubt even 1% of foreigners in Korea can hold a conversation. How many people on this board can? |
It depends on what you consider to be 'conversation'. If you can tell about your day at work, does that qualify? See what I mean.
What I mean by 'something nonetheless' is like this........ I know people who have been here 7-8 years and I have been here 1 1/2 years, at at times, I am almost similar to them in ability, a little lower, or sometimes even better. But their ability is still pretty decent, good enough to carry a conversation, not a super complex one, but a conversation nonetheless, express their ideas, and they know a lot of words.
I think it's more than 1% but less than 5%. |
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J.B. Clamence
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 4:55 am Post subject: |
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| It is not even necessary to learn how to write Japanese in order to learn to speak it well. In fact, there are many teach-yourself books which are completely Romanized. Obviously, that's not a good way to learn a language, because you would be setting yourself up for illiteracy, but as far as learning to speak Japanese well and "hold a conversation", which is what I believe was being discussed here, I don't think there's any question that it is much easier to accomplish this with Japanese. |
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