|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
fondasoape
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
|
 Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:09 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
When people drop the 'bottle of' when they ask for a beer, you could say:
1. it's a non-canonical usage
2. it's a dialectical usage
3. the generally-accepted wisdom which says English has 2 classes of nouns is incorrect.
Consider:
Some nouns are ALWAYS countable
'He gave me a strawberry.'
(Let's call nouns like this 'count nouns')
Some nouns are NEVER countable
'Give me a candy bar and then we can have world peace.' (uncountable, unless your spelling is really bad)
(Let's call nouns like this 'noncount nouns')
Some nouns are SOMETIMES countable, depending on context.
'It got shot off in the war.' (war in particular)
'War is unhealthy for children and other living things.' (war in general)
(Let's call nouns like this 'mass nouns')
For the purposes of this thread, the distinction between noncount and mass nouns, however, is by the by: in the case of 'get me a beer', I'd say the usage is non-canonical. It's not dialect, because it seems to be accepted by native speakers from all around the world, and in all social classes.
Still, students generally enjoy being taught that the information in their book--and the information taught by all of their previous dimwit English teachers--is wrong. It also raises your cred--when you explain it clearly, students realize you know what you're talking about. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Sliver
Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: The third dimension
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
fondasoape wrote
| Quote: |
| 2. it's a dialectical usage |
Though you can say "dialectical" it would be clearer to say "dialectal"
Dialectic
| Quote: |
The art or practice of arriving at the truth by the exchange of logical arguments.
The process especially associated with Hegel of arriving at the truth by stating a thesis, developing a contradictory antithesis, and combining and resolving them into a coherent synthesis.
Hegel's critical method for the investigation of this process.
The Marxian process of change through the conflict of opposing forces, whereby a given contradiction is characterized by a primary and a secondary aspect, the secondary succumbing to the primary, which is then transformed into an aspect of a new contradiction. Often used in the plural with a singular or plural verb.
The Marxian critique of this process.
dialectics (used with a sing. verb) A method of argument or exposition that systematically weighs contradictory facts or ideas with a view to the resolution of their real or apparent contradictions.
The contradiction between two conflicting forces viewed as the determining factor in their continuing interaction.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English dialetik, from Old French dialetique, from Latin dialectica, logic, from Greek dialektik (tekhn), (art) of debate, feminine of dialektikos, from dialektos, speech, conversation. See dialect.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dia��lecti��cal or dia��lectic adj.
dia��lecti��cal��ly adv. |
Dialect
| Quote: |
A regional or social variety of a language distinguished by pronunciation, grammar, or vocabulary, especially a variety of speech differing from the standard literary language or speech pattern of the culture in which it exists: Cockney is a dialect of English.
A variety of language that with other varieties constitutes a single language of which no single variety is standard: the dialects of Ancient Greek.
The language peculiar to the members of a group, especially in an occupation; jargon: the dialect of science.
The manner or style of expressing oneself in language or the arts.
A language considered as part of a larger family of languages or a linguistic branch. Not in scientific use: Spanish and French are Romance dialects.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[French dialecte, from Old French, from Latin dialectus, form of speech, from Greek dialektos, speech, from dialegesthai, to discourse, use a dialect : dia-, between, over; see dia- + legesthai, middle voice of legein, to speak; see leg- in Indo-European Roots.]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dia��lectal adj.
dia��lectal��ly adv. |
That said, good explanantion until the self adoration.
Just helping you make it as clear as possible so you don't look like one
| Quote: |
| of their previous dimwit English teachers |
especially as
| Quote: |
| when you explain it clearly, students realize you know what you're talking about. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fondasoape
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 11:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Are you trying to make a point, or massage your own ego? I wrote the damn thing at 3 am, ok? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sliver
Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: The third dimension
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
fondasoape wrote
| Quote: |
| Are you trying to make a point |
Just that the condescending remark towards other teachers was unnecessary when you had provided such a good explanation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fondasoape
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Please try to take solace in the knowledge somebody else has the 'pleasure' of teaching my pedagogical abortions (i.e. the spankers and spankettes who suffered through the first four years of my teaching) 
The comment was not so much directed at anyone likely to post here, as much as at the "I don't need to know English; I only need to know how to press play" variety of Korean public-school English teachers who claim to know grammar and/or vocabulary and/or writing and/or....
chill pill, dude... chill pill. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sliver
Joined: 04 May 2003
Location: The third dimension
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2004 10:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sorry, I don't have a chill pill for you.
Peace |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
