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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| red dog wrote: |
| I didn't accuse you of supporting human slaughter. YOU said lack of concern for unknown animals was similar to the lack of politeness often displayed toward strangers in the subway, and I pointed out that the degree of violence involved in slaughtering animals (but it's OK because they're not "pets") was a lot more serious. |
You said exactly what I quoted you as saying : "supporting human slaughter!" It's completely absurd for you to claim now that you said anything else when it is right here for us to look at, my friend. I understood it fine. It was very insulting, and nothing I said to you called for an attack like that.
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| You may not be a racist, but you are perpetuating a stereotype of all Koreans as anti-animal unless they're "Westernized." |
I'm doing no such thing. You are just throwing faeces at the wall now, hoping some of it will stick. In the process, you are getting plenty of it on your own hands and spreading a rather foul aroma around the room - by extension, you are making the cause you claim to support look rather bad due to your poor example of civility.
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| You accused me of arrogance toward Koreans, but it is your own views that I find extremely arrogant. |
That's rather interesting, considering that I've only advocated respecting the cultural integrity of countries that are not my own, and trying to learn about them rather than condemn and judge aspects of their heritage that are different from where I come from.
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| The Koreans I know are concerned about animals in slaughterhouses, animals without homes, and animals in laboratories -- and they certainly don't condone burying animals alive! |
Sick animals infected with an epidemic need to be culled and disposed of in the safest and quickest manner in order to stop the spread of disease - that seems clear enough, and what also is clear is that failure to do so in the most efficient way possible is far more inhumane as it will inevitably lead to more animals contracting the disease. (People, too, though I don't notice you being very concerned about them.)
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| Instead of accusing them of being Westernized, why don't you just admit that you're the one who is anti-animalized? |
Why don't you be more polite, instead of calling people insulting names merely because you have a difference of opinion? I didn't even know that "anti-animalized" was even a word ... oh, I love animals fine, but I love people as well - I have to wonder how well you care about human beings, considering you show so little concern for the welfare of public health employees who have to dispose of animals that carry a disease that has been shown to kill people.
I made no accusations about any individuals in the Korean animal rights movement. I said that most Koreans see that eating dog is a barrier to their country being taken seriously as a modern land by people in the West. You can argue with that idea if you like, but don't misrepresent what I said.
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| Also, your accusations are bizarre because I never singled out Koreans as more cruel than any other ethnic group and specifically expressed my objections to doing so. |
The quote function is your friend, so why not use it? When did I accuse you of any such thing? (Clue : never, just like the other things you asserted I had said.)
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| Finally, I don't owe you a point-by-point explanation of the basics of animal rights, or why live burials are not OK even by the most ultraconservative animal "welfare" standards. |
No, you don't owe anyone anything at all, but when you make absurd comparisons to cannibalism and display quite a lot of poor knowledge about disease vectors and the etiology of avian flu, then you do your cause a disservice I think by your rather aloof attitude when called upon to explain your ideas so that others can understand them. It's possible part of you realizes how silly some of the things are that you've already said, and how near-impossible it would be to actually explicate them in some way that might seem credible ... that's all I can figure.
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| There are plenty of books, Web sites and other resources out there that can provide that kind of information. I added my 2 cents to the discussion and those who read your posts and mine can decide whose views are "right." |
That's what this is all about to you, isn't it? Being right is important enough that you have no qualms about distorting other people's views, calling them racist, saying that they condone human slaughter, making very strong implications that they hate animals - just generally being rude and boorish.
Curious, what is it about this issue that makes it so important to you that you will so vehemently attack on the level of personality someone who simply has a different point of view? |
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John Henry
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| So that's why I can't get it up...I haven't eaten any dogmeat!!! |
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Blind Willie
Joined: 05 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Did you all know that even a plant screams in it's own plant way when it's cut down? I just thought I'd mention it.
I dont like how dogs are killed here, and I'll never eat dog. But really, the only thing being stunned into unconsciounness does for a slaughtered animal is spare us from witnessing it's death throes.
Dying is never nice. It's a time of pain and fear before the body stops functioning and the brain shuts off and leaves everything you felt, thought, and remembered for as nothing more than inert chemicals.
No amount of morphine or bolts to the head makes it better. |
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John Henry
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm so glad that I don't have the same view of death that you do. |
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peemil
Joined: 09 Feb 2003
Location: Koowoompa
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Jeez... They're only animals. Killing a dog is no different than killing a cow. |
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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Blind Willie wrote: |
Dying is never nice. It's a time of pain and fear before the body stops functioning and the brain shuts off and leaves everything you felt, thought, and remembered for as nothing more than inert chemicals.
No amount of morphine or bolts to the head makes it better. |
Apples are the same as oranges.
Clams are the same as whales.
Qantas is the same as Rickety Sticky-Tape Airlines.
Everything is the same as everything else. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| peemil wrote: |
| Jeez... They're only animals. Killing a dog is no different than killing a cow. |
In this case it is.
So far in this thread we've established that some animals in other countries are slaughtered in a manner which causes undue suffering. We've also established that all food dogs are killed in a such a way as to create maximum pain for maximum time. |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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The Beaver wrote:
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peemil wrote:
Jeez... They're only animals. Killing a dog is no different than killing a cow.
In this case it is.
So far in this thread we've established that some animals in other countries are slaughtered in a manner which causes undue suffering. We've also established that all food dogs are killed in a such a way as to create maximum pain for maximum time. |
I'm not sure it's accurate to say all of them are killed that way. But I'd rephrase the above statement as: "Killing a dog or cow is no different than killing a person."
Last edited by red dog on Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| red dog wrote: |
| "Killing a dog or cow is no different than killing a person. |
You've also implied that eating a hamburger is comparable to cannibalism. You then went on to say that the safety of public health workers is less important than the "right" of infected chickens to be killed humanely before disposal. And finally, you dredged up a long-dormant thread just so you could say that a Korean man who accidentally killed a small dog after it bit him ought to do time or at least get a criminal record.
Just curious, red dog ... do you like people? Even a little?
I'm asking because most dogs I know seem like people a little better than you do. |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:20 am Post subject: |
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Bobster wrote:
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| You've also implied that eating a hamburger is comparable to cannibalism. |
I didn't imply it, Bobster. I said it very clearly and directly! I can't believe it took you so long to grasp my meaning. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| red dog wrote: |
| I'm not sure it's accurate to say all of them are killed that way. But I'd rephrase the above statement as: "Killing a dog or cow is no different than killing a person." |
Unless you have some info I'm not privy to, it is accurate. The medicinal benefit is believed to be absent if the dog hasn't been pumping out shit loads of adrenline and that's how they get the adreneline to pump. |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:37 am Post subject: |
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Well, I seem to recall a Korean animal advocate once expressing concern about the claim that deliberate torture is used in each and every case. He wasn't defending the industry by any means, and neither am I, just guarding against the spread of information that might turn out to be inaccurate or exaggerated.
Unless you've personally visited every dog slaughter facility, you can't make statements about what happens in every case. However, it's been documented in some cases and that's bad enough. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:59 am Post subject: |
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Bobster, you told us you've had dog meat before. At the time, were you reluctant because of the way the animals are slaughtered? Or didn't that matter? I'm honestly not looking to make a point or debate anything here -- I'm just asking as one person to another, and wondering how you felt.
The beaver and I have both have said we'd probably be willing to try it, but I don't think either of us can bring ourselves to, in effect, support the cruelty of the slaughter. Unlike Blind Willie, I personally feel a lot differently if an animal is killed quickly or is made to die a slow painful death for my gustatory pleasure.
Oh yeah, and anyone is free to call me a hypocrite, but I can't help not caring as much about lobsters being boiled alive as I do about dogs being blow-torched. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| red dog wrote: |
Bobster wrote:
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| You've also implied that eating a hamburger is comparable to cannibalism. |
I didn't imply it, Bobster. I said it very clearly and directly! I can't believe it took you so long to grasp my meaning. |
I was trying to be kind ... 
(It was a stupid thing to say - you do know that, right?) |
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red dog
Joined: 31 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| Back atcha, Bobster. |
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