Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Sue_Canada]

I think that Americans and English Canadians have a hell of a time learning languages for 3 main reasons:

1. Everybody wants to practice their English with us.

2. We don't really learn a foreign language at school when we are children. In Canada, they "pretend" they are giving us French classes, but do we really learn any French? No. And, what is worse, is that we are not forced to learn it after Grade 6. (at least in Alberta where I grew up)

3. As children, we hardly learned any English grammar at school. It is so sad to see how many Canadians do not even know what an adjective and an adverb are. It is incredible. If we know absolutely nothing about the grammar of our own language, then the task of learning a foreign language is so much more daunting.

I have travelled quite a bit in Europe, and I have noticed how much easier Europeans learn new languages than Canadians and Americans for these three reasons.

1. They know about the grammar of their own language. They even know the names of all the different tenses.

2. They learned a foreign language (English) in school for many years. This gives them an advantage in learning yet another language.

3. AND, they don't have everybody trying to practice their English with them. For example, in Germany, they are much more keen on practicing their English with a Canadian than practicing their English with someone from Yugoslavia. Even if the person from Yugoslavia speaks English fine, they will speak German with them, because they are in Germany.

So, what am I trying to say?

It is very hard for us Canadians and Americans to learn foreign languages. Therefore, if some of us do manage to learn the foreign language, we shouldn't look down on the people who don't.

I have lived in two foreign countries before, and managed to learn the language pretty well through a LOT of suffering. I am really hoping that I will be able to learn Korean. But, if I don't, I won't be too hard on myself.

Cheers!

[gang ah jee]

[Squaffy]

[Sue_Canada]

To Squaffy,

It did exist in Summer 2002 when I was in Germany. I had a few friends from Serbia. When I called it Serbia, they corrected me and said "Yugoslavia". Who can keep track anymore.

How irrelevant anyway!!! Who gives a !@@#$^& what it is called. One thing is for certain: Their first language is not English.

[Homer]

Sue,

This little linguistic theory about North Americansbeing less apt at learning foreign languages is very cute.
Is it founded on anything real? I think not.

You mentionned europeans learning new languages more easily..well perhaps thats because the languages they are learning are mostly phonetically similar. I speak English and French fluently, I did learn Korean and it wasn't that hard, nor was it easy. But, I speak no spanish or italian..yet if I listen to people speaking in those languages I can pick it up quick enough by simply recognizing some words.
A frenchman can listen to germans, brits, spaniards or italians and have phonetic references to at leats catch the jib of whats said. Doesn't mean they are "better" at languages.
Heck, my brother is in Japan, he speaks English, French, Spanish and Japanese fluently...
Language is a question of affinity yes but mostly its a question of effort and motivation. Using excuses as "North Americans are less apt at learning languages" or "Koreans just wan tto practice their English" is not very serious. Why not be honest and avoid the cop-out. Most people don't learn Korean because they don't care too or are not willing to put the effort into it.
The main difficulty with asian languages is the lack of phonetic references.
Furthermore, don't you think that North Americans have a better chance at learning an asian language simply because most asian immigrants move to NA and not europe?
People in France have the same english lessons in early education that we do in french in English Canada. They speak English better then we do french not because of an affinity for languages but because for now English is the language of business and travel.
As for the grammar you are right, our education system glances over grammar.

[Korea Newfie]

Man, I hate it when more than one person make posts that I want to disagree with, because it makes my life more difficult... But here goes!

[Sloth]

Going back to the original post...

It happened to me once. I was in a PC room talking with my AMERICAN friend. When a Korean person looked at us and said:

"You are in Korea. You should be speaking Korean!"

It was the end of a rather long and stressful day at work, so we let him know that it was absolutely none of his business what language we were speaking to each other as he was not part of the conversation.

For the record, I am studying Korean. I'd put my languge skills in the "basic conversation" catagory, but I'm working on improving them. I've found chatting with the receptionists to be excellent practice (they seem to find it amusing to talk to a foreigner in Korean).

[William Beckerson]

I know some basic Korean. I get by. All the Koreans in my life speak decent English. And, yes, I have other things I'd rather do than learn the local language.

In short, it's the same reason I dont know how to drive a car: I dont need to.

Call me lazy if you'd like. I'd just post a reply that'd force Lemon to edit me. So lets not waste his time.

[The Hamster]

gang ah jee
"Rants like the Hamster's look to me like justification of inability/laziness.

(I hate it when I pronounce something correctly and they act like they do not know what I said. These same people try to get me to pronounce out the word slowly and it sounds just like I said it. I get them back by making them pronounce out words in English if they are a little off. )[/quote]

I dislike it when people quote out of context. If you had read the rest you would have realized that I never mentioned I pronounced anything perfectly. I said it correctly as I was taught to say it. True it may have been a little off. My point was that when I venture out away from where I live some Koreans act as though they cannot understand what I am saying --unless I pronounce it perfectly. Nevermind the fact that the other Korean people satanding nearby understood what I was saying.

My reply was just that a RANT. A rant to let off a little bit of steam.
However, I am in no way a lazy inept individual who is trying to cover my language barriers by coming up with excuses no to learn the Korean language.

I am learning the language. Truth be told I find it to be an interesting challenge. I enjoy going out and using Korean.

I am also insulted that you would imply that I am a bad teacher. Especially by inferring that I am bad becuase I do strive to learn the many benifits of Korean in the classroom.

Knowing the Korean language can provide some insight as to why it is so difficult for students to understand this, that, these, those and singular vs plural. This has little to so with being a good instructor or a bad instructor.
I am a good teacher. My students learn English. I am there for them to learn English. Not for them to teach me new Korean words or to talk to me in Korean, but for them to learn English. It is my opinion and experience that spoken korean in an English classroom is a hinderance to learning English in the longrun.

Also, I was being sarcastic when I said "Why bother to learn Korean, when they only want to talk to you in English"
I am still taking Korean lessons. I enjoy them. However, it was from MY experiences that I made that comment. Even my Korean teacher wnated to speak in English (to practice her skills). She even went so far as to have me give her an English name. This was fine, I just insisted that she give me a Korean name. I finally had to tell her (in Korean) that I did not want to speak English with her, she was ther to teach me Korean not for me to teach her English.
Some Koreans automatically assume that because I am not Korean I cannot speak Korean and they tell me that I should learn Korean. All this before even asking me if I know Korean. Or, they wnat to talk in English, even if I have started a conversation in korean.

[gang ah jee]

ok hamster, granted. I was ranting too, not at you, just as things i've heard that sound like what i thought you said. I guess i read it wrong. I apologise.

^^

[masuro]

What is the maximum time a person can be in Korea and still justify not learning the language? I suppose there's no answer to that but I think there is a point where a person should definitely be ashamed of not being able to carry on a conversation. Some of my foreign friends have been in Korea for 6-7 years and can't speak a word of the language. Some of these people say, "I don't need the language" but come running to me or a Korean friend when they need simple things taken care of. When they visit their in-laws or their girlfriend's family they sit in the corner like a lump because they can't communicate. And then they wonder why the family ignores them or is opposed to the marriage . . . .

After eight years I can carry on a decent conversation and I can do most things without help from anyone. When I need to know something I go to a Korean website where I can get up to date, accurate information. After reading the Korean online newspapers I came to realise how paltry the English dailies are here. (For long-termers, anyway. They're fine for anyone not planning to stay in the country very long.) It sounds like I'm bragging but that's not what I want to do. I can do all these things but I don't do them as well as I should for someone who has been in the country for eight years. I'm ashamed of my relatively poor Korean skills so I can't understand why my foreign friends are not embarrassed at all. Perhaps I'm strange . . . .

[indiercj]

I see a lot of folks on this board say they are here in Korea to teach english and experience local culture. Others are just for the money and pleasure while pretending to be teachers. I won't argue with the latter ones. They don't need to devote themselves to learn local language and i agree with that. My original post was addressing to those who wants more than that.

If some english teacher said "Koreans must learn and speak english but i don't want to learn their language" does this imply discrimination or english superiority? I thought so. How do you encourage korean student of yours to learn your native language? Just because this is the way to go or as a tool to communicate with different people and culture? Do you think you are a foreign language instructor or just the one mighty "english instructor"? I just can't imagine a good foreign language teacher who can't even persuade himself/herself of the joy for learning another language could ever urge others to learn with the devotion required. Yes this might be too much to ask. But that's my 2 cents worth.

By the way, i know a lot of fluent english speaking koreans but from what i've seen they tend to have a particular political position and that certainly does not represent korean opinion in general. That's why i think anyone who wants to know the REAL REALITY should learn korean enough to talk with people who can't speak english in depth. The more you talk to them in korean the more you'll discover much of the aggression, uncertainty, rudeness was somewhat results of misinterpretation.

Hey i'm glad i can read enough english not because this could bring me more opportunities to succeed in life but because i can read from english only speaking teachers who seems to just refuse to learn korean. I really do!

[kimcheeking]

[The Hamster]

[Canadian Teacher]

It has happened to me a few times, usually from some drunk businessman or 90 lb uni student who thinks he is cool.

What is worse is actually learining the language. After my zillion years in Korea I have gotten pretty good at the language. Koreans believe that only Koreans can speak Korea, that they are born with it as an inate ability. Many times I hear people talking about me and my family six inches away. I look over and say "Excuse me, but I understand everything you are saying and it is not very polite."

A look of amazement ensues and inevitably the response is "You know too much about Korea."

And I do. It amazes me but the average Korean is clueless about what is happening in Korea.