Korean Job Discussion Forums

nrvs · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Location: standing upright on a curve

I've been working at this hogwan since the end of October. I've been living in a good-sized 1BR apartment in a Seocho-gu "villa." It's older, but everything works, it's really big, it's quiet as a tomb, and it's a 5 minute walk from work. I'm comfortable here.

So, when I arrived at work this afternoon my director asks me if I like it. Yes, yes I do. She asks if it bothers me that there isn't much sunlight (it's a "garden level" a.k.a. halfway underground apartment). No, I sleep late most days so it doesn't bother me at all. She asks me some other questions, even "Don't you think it's too big? Your gas bill must be so expensive!" Nope, it really isn't, and it doesn't bother me. She really wanted me to find fault in the apartment, but she had no luck. I like the place.

Background information: A Canadian teaching couple (boyfriend/girlfriend) are leaving at the end of February. They want to hire another couple to work at our hogwan. Anyway, since my apartment is twice as big as your average officetel studio, I know they want to put the new couple in my apartment. But I'm already living here. Problem for the hogwan. The apartment the present couple occupy is too small, and also it's a total hole. Drafty windows, a faulty ondol, and a mold problem from leaky pipes. If they think I'd ever move in there, they're kidding themselves. I'd take Drastic Measures.

Anyway, back to the hogwan. At 10 tonight, right after work, my director calls me over to her desk once again. She's got a legal-looking paper. It's the lease for my apartment. "Oh," she says, "your apartment's lease is up on April 20th. You'll have to move then." I ask her why she just can't renew the lease. I'm pretty sure they've rented my apartment for a few years. "But it's really meant for two people. It's too expensive when there's just one person living inside it."

Saving money is well and good for them, but

a) Judging by the nasty apartment my coworkers (the couple) have, I don't trust them to find a place as nice or nicer than the one I'm in right now. It sure won't be bigger.

b) Why the hell should I have to move out when this apartment is a large part of why I signed a contract with them anyway? They presented it as such when they were trying to "sell" the hogwan to me. Unfortunately, I lacked the foresight to stipulate the apartment's location/continuity in the contract. My fault.

c) It will be a total pain to move. I hate moving.

d) They obviously have zero respect for my quality of life, my sense of comfort, and avoidance of unnecessary disruption.

I like my school, love the kids, and I don't mind going to work every day. I'm paid on time with no funny deductions. The hogwan doesn't make undue demands on my personal time. This apartment thing is proving to be the first real problem I've faced.

Some of you might be thinking that I shouldn't complain about free accomodation. I'm also aware that many teachers in Korea have it much worse than me in every respect. Still, I don't feel it's quite right to force a teacher to move halfway through his/her contract.

Anyway, we didn't get anywhere with our conversation tonight, and we decided to talk about it tomorrow instead. What should I say? Should I try to fight this? Or should I just go with the flow? I mean, provided it's not the couple's moldy dump, it might be a newer or nicer place (albeit smaller). Especially if they let me in on the renting process, which they might do if I compromise with them on this.

(BTW, I saw how much key money they paid for my place: W8,000,000)

nrvs · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Location: standing upright on a curve

tzechuk · Joined: 20 Dec 2004

If they are not going to force you to move into the other people's place and you have a choice of a difference place, then perhaps you should compromise. It's never good to be too rigid.

dulouz · Joined: 04 Feb 2003 Location: Uranus

This is an oft over looked but absolutely vital part of your happiness here. Ask for a housing alllowance and go shopping for a new place. You'll likely need key money. Ask the director directly if she is going to move you out. Directors don't have a problem doing that. You're lucky they dont put extra office furniture in your place.

Derrek · Joined: 15 Jan 2003

You're out of there.. don't make a stink. They're trying to be nice to you, believe it or not. They were really hoping you'd just say you'd be happy to move and they wouldn't have to confront you.

Just make sure you get to choose the place you want, or at least have a hand in it somehow.

HamuHamu · Joined: 01 May 2003 Location: Seoul

I dunno...I agree with everyone else about the fact that making a stink or disruptions at the school can make you miserable, but at the same time, I would personally put my foot down and say NO WAY am I moving....UNLESS they are willing to work together with you HONESTLY to find a new place that is acceptable. You have until April 20th, so that's long enough to find a new place, and Seocho-gu should have a ton of nice new officetels.

I would sit and talk to the director honestly and tell them that a huge part of the job was the apartment, you appreciate their generosity in giving you an aparment that is much nicer and larger than what the average hagwan will provide, and you know they have done this becuase they understand your needs and want to keep you happy (this kind of laying it on thick usually does wonders for their "face"). Tell them you understand the predicament they are in, and you don't want to cause them financial hardship or undue stress, but that you are not willing to go through that stress yourself. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Then, evaluate what the apartment is worth to you-- is it worth 150,000 a month to stay? If so, offer to have a small housing deduction made each month to cover what they ARE willing to pay. If it's not worth that to you, then you may have to face the move.

I'm a big one on the apartment - living in a SMALL place, no matter how nice and clean, can kill your happiness after a few months. If it was me, and a decision that made me happy couldnt' be reached, I would be prepared to give my notice. There are a lot of great positions that are coming up for March 1st. Although they might have crappy apartments, too... Confused

the eye · Joined: 29 Jan 2004

8,000,000 IS a lot for an apartment...you are in daegu, right?
i think you should do them the favor.

you have only been there 4 months, so you haven't redecorated the place or bought a billiards table yet...it can't be THAT hard to move...can it? the school will probably help you with a truck, anyway.

why not ask them the average cost of the other teachers places and go to a real estate agent (�ε��) in your area with that figure. you can apartment hunt yourself.

as for infringing on your quality of life and comfort, i don't think they are even half aware it should be a problem for you. it wouldn't be so for them if they were moving.

yeah, i does suck to lose comfort and move to a smaller place. if you are moving into the hole the othr teachers are leaving from, i would tell the school to get it cleaned up and fixed first. otherwise, find another place.

VanIslander · Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:44 pm Post subject:

Ryst Helmut · Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:45 pm Post subject:

We had a debate over an issue just like this a few years back....

My 500 word message in a nutshell..."your apartment is part of your salary, if they mess with that, they might as well mess with your cash payment."

Yes, don't be too rigid.

No, don't get shafted.

I'd say, "I'd CONSIDER moving if I get to choose the apartment." My school (in '97...so maybe times have changed) 'made' me move, but I asked them to take me to <at least> 5 different apartments that they would pay for, and I would choose the one I preferred most...if the place was a fair tradeoff.

I also took two PAID days off from work to move, and they paid for all taxi jaunts to and fro (dang....I can't imagine not having vehicles in Korea now).

I also had management fix up any and all problems I had with the apt. BEFORE I moved in. Also, got a little extra a month for transportation fees. Who wants to walk in the torrential downpours / snowstorms 20+ minutes to work? They made me move...where I was but 3 minutes away....sooooooo....

!Shoosh

Ryst

nrvs · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Location: standing upright on a curve

Thanks for your help. You've certainly swayed me to take the easy way out with this rather than fight it.

Honestly, I'm glad I asked. Because last night, as I was sitting at my director's desk for the second time that day, my blood pressure was rising. I'm happy I had the opportunity to sleep on it (and ask your advice). I avoided a real argument -- one I couldn't have won. Like Derrek said, they were trying to be nice; I've got to move.

I'm going to go in early to work today and frame the conversation in the kiss-ass face-saving way HamuHamu suggested. I'll tell them that I'd be happy to move this month so the new couple can have my big place upon arrival.

I guess the only hard line I'll take is that I won't move into the drafty, moldy dump. I'm worried about this because I don't know when its lease is up. However, at our staff meetings the director has seemed embarrassed at the state of that place and its perpetual problems. I don't think it'll be difficult to persuade them to rent a new apartment, especially since I'm trying to work with them on this.

crazylemongirl · Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Location: almost there...

This is part of the fun of living in school digs. Read your contract and what it says, most of them are vague enough to allow you to be put in some real dives. I found this out the hard way in my first contract, where I got moved four times.

My last place was on the ground floor with a broken window, it stunk or urine and there were no curtains. Fourtantly it was a few days before the end of my contract and I ended up sleeping a friends place.

My advice to anyone working here on accomdation is thus. 1. Don't sign on to live in a place without seeing your digs first. 2. If this is not possible then look into trying and finding your own place.

nrvs · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Location: standing upright on a curve

Yeah.

I know there are at least two vacant apartments in the villa I'm in. In fact, one of them is a one-roomer right next to mine. I'll ask them to look into those first. All apartments in this building have double windows (no drafts!) and it's made entirely out of concrete. I like quiet, and I like low gas bills. And the move itself would be super easy.

Off for some coffee now. Thanks again.

nrvs · Joined: 30 Jun 2004 Location: standing upright on a curve

Update: As you all predicted, my director seemed pleased with my acquiescence this afternoon, especially when I said I'd move out this month if they end up hiring a couple like they want to.

I told her I wasn't going to live in the dump, but the lease on that place is up at the end of the month, so it's a non-issue. My only other stipulation was air conditioning since my current apartment has it. I don't want to buy one of those (expensive?) standalone units. They didn't seem to have a problem with that. They're calling my villa's landlord tomorrow afternoon to check on available studios, so my move might be ridiculously easy anyway.

Hardly terrible. I should try to be less paranoid.

just because · Joined: 01 Aug 2003 Location: Changwon - 4964

JongnoGuru · Joined: 25 May 2004 Location: peeing on your doorstep

Sounds like things are working out for you, NRVS, and it's always good if one can avoid a potential patch of nastiness with an employer -- and particularly over something as vital to one's sense of security, comfort and happiness as your home -- so early in your Korea experience (if your "Joined:" date is any indication).

Korean employers may view their foreign teachers' housing as temporary and interchangeable as army barracks, but I've never seen it that way.

Some people here are just born for the vagabond lifestyle, and can fling their knapsack anywhere and happily call it home. There was a time when I didn't have much of a choice about that. But once I'd gotten a few years behind me and housing became part of the package, oh lord, the easiest way to get on my bad side and turn me vicious was to monkey around with my housing.

It got very bad once with a particular employer -- so bad that, to me, there no longer were such things as "innocent" questions or comments about my housing. Seriously, I got on famously with the staff, was amenable to working late or even on weekends when necessary to get projects finished. But ANY comment about my house from anyone at the office, and my "antennae" went out and I was in "fight mode" in an instant.

But as I say, I was more established here by then, and because of that, I was able to make good on certain threats if they didn't back off. And the employer knew it. That is, they could hold the job over my head, but I was in Korea on my own wicket, didn't rely on them for my air ticket or a "letter of release", and there were places that would hire me pretty much right away if I decided to walk. Still, it did take me a few years struggling, flophousing, and not having a regular income before I even found an employer nice enough to pay for my housing.