Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Metsuke]

Hello everyone.

I've been reading a lot here on Daves, and I suppose I'm trying to figure out the best way to relate/negotiate/communicate with directors of Hagwons. Or if that is at all possible in any way.

Before you read any further, I think I'd also like to state that I'm not trying to disrespect any existing teachers who are in Korea right now. I am quite sensitive to the fact that first timers in Korea are perceived in a less than positive light by other more experienced teachers. With that being said... please allow me to ask for some assistance.

One school of thought I have encountered is to just get the contract, if it has what you need accept it, if not... than don't even bother to speak to the director lest you be perceived in a bad light. The boss is supreme after all in Korea, and your position in Korean society as a outsider does not entitle you to negotiate at all.

The other school of thought would appear to be speaking in a calm, mature way to the director and essentially asserting your rights and your value to the school in a subtle way. An example of this would be knowing how much the school makes, versus your pay... how much money you know you can make the director, and that you know your a good teacher... ect. For me, this seems like a business approach. You say in a tactful way... "I have value, I can make you money, I can make your business run smooth, compensate me properly." Again I realize this is a bold statement for me to make, however I know in a humble capacity that I am not a bad teacher. I've worked as an educator for many years, and take the role and responsibility very seriously.

I may be out of place saying this, but I'd like to think that if you approach your director in a respectful way and explain what you need to do the best job for them, you may have some more success. Better to communicate things in an honest way upfront, than to feel bad for not having spoken up in the beginning. A business approach in this way is to essentially come to an agreement that is to the mutual benefit and acceptance of both parties involved.

So what is the opinion of others on the board? Have you had success speaking in this way with directors, or not? Is it all dependant upon the individual, and how much does cultural stereotypes really come into play?

I'm very interested to hear some responses, because very soon I will be negotiating my contract. For me, I want to negotiate for my time, and not so much for pay. I have learned that a good job here in Korea is less about millions and millions of won, but more about a decent wage and more time off. As well as the ability to teach in a sincere manner.

Obviously this line of thinking is being brought about by my personal situation at the moment... and I'll share a small part of it with you now.

I already know that very soon I will be speaking with a hiring director of a school, and I sense they are going to encourage a 6 day work week. I know enough about myself that I would not function very well like that... I need my downtime. I've accepted the fact that if they have a business plan in place for their school, and they run a 6 day ship... than thats ok. But it may just not be ok for me. I know there are teachers at this school not working a 6 day week, but a 5 day, and I'm sure there are some who do both. In my mind what I want is contractually to be locked in to a 5 day work week, but with the good intention of working on the 6 day when they need me for over time pay. That way when they need me they have me, and if I'm feeling a little burnt out I can communicate to them that I don't want to work the overtime for a while and that I need a break. I figure it is a way to keep both parties satisfied.

I think things are a bit further complicated by the fact that I have a friend who is putting in a good word for me at this school as well, and that she said a 6 day is the norm as well. A concern of mine is that if I take too strong a stance on this issue, and end up not going to the school that I may in a small way affect her relationship with the director which I understand to be a very close friendship. If that happened I would feel horrible.

My problem I guess is that I think this potential school is very good, and I want to work for them. From all my research, and conversation with some teachers at the school I understand it to be one of the best Hagwons in Daegu. But I suppose I don't want to sacrifice my own sense of happiness and balance of work/leisure just for a school, no matter how good it may be.

I hope I have communicated my situation in an appropriate way. Again I'd like to add that I don't want to step on any toes here. I've run into more than one person who thinks I should suffer a bad job for a year just because I'm new. I respectfully disagree with that opinion.

Thanks in advance for your responses, whether they be supportive or not. Any feedback will help.

[Derrek]

First of all.... and please don't take this the wrong way...

The fact that you are even considering a 6-day work week makes me think you're a total push-over.

You shouldn't even be looking at a school like that, much less worrying about how you should negotiate with such a craphole.

If you want to work like a dog, then that's your choice, but damn....

[Sage Monkey]

Most of the conditions that they put on the standard contract are designed for a newbie fresh off the plane. These terms aren't actually as negotiable as they may lead you to believe, unless you are in Korea, have some exceptional experience, and have good looks (sorry but it's true).

Are you in Korea now or on the way over?

[Metsuke]

Hi Sage,

I am not in Korea now. I am in the process of finding employment, so am having a difficult time sorting fact from fiction in some cases. As I wrote previously in my original post, all I really want is a good job. Through my research I feel I have found some people I can trust. I suppose I feel conflicted a bit between the variance of opinions expressed on this board.

Derreks post I suppose illustrates the difficulty I am experiencing attempting to find creditable information about ESL employment in Korea. This is not to say that I am offended by his post at all, and neither am I attempting to insult him either. But it is no secret at all that the search for true information can at times be difficult. From my previous research and discourse with others from these forums, I came to develop an understanding of what would constitue a good position over a bad one. And some of those things radiated with me.

Some of those things that I identified with in a good employer included a nice apartment to live in, as my home is very important to me. Other things included a culturally sensitive director, a good teaching curriculum, an established school, good location, and many other little things. For me the little things are what round out a good job. You can have 2.5 mil won a month, make lots of money, but hate your job. Or make 2.0 mil won a month and be very happy in your school, your home, and your time. This is of course what I want. I'd rather make a less money, and be more happy.

And really thats what its about for me. If I'm going to transplant my life, I need to have a sense of security about my quality of life. Not that I'm demanding it, but I think anyone regardless of who they are should feel secure about where they are going. Especially to a new culture.

I'm not sure if I misrepresented myself, but I don't consider myself a pushover. I'm posting on these boards to educate myself so that I won't get into a bad situation. I may have to explain myself in more clear terms next time.

Regardless of whether a 6 day work week, or a 5 day work week is relevant all I want is some trust and security in Korea I suppose. I am conflicted to say the least. If this school can provide me with what I need, and I need to work an extra 3 hour shift on a Saturday... than so be it. But if I'm being misled... that I need to know that as well.

At this point, I don't think there is much relevance to my airing my feelings about the process I am going through currently. What I plan to do is to get my contract, read it over, and make it available here for anyone who is kind enough to give me some feed back on it.

Perhaps my issue is one of trust, and my capacity for risk versus reward.

Many thanks again for any contribuitons to this thread.

[Zenpickle]

My personal feeling is that a hagwon owner/director that has a modern business mindset will respond well to a business approach. I have experienced this myself.

Then there are the Yangban types who still live in medieval Chosun dynasty Korea and think of employees as servants, not skilled professionals. Approaching them would be the equivalent of a waiter telling you, "Um, you don't want the steak. You should have the chicken. And I don't think you should drink alcohol with your meal tonight."

[canadian_in_korea]

[chronicpride]

Don't put too much thought and effort in what/how you communicate yourself in emails and cover letters.

It takes them about 3.7 seconds on average to click on your attached .jpg of yourself, after they've opened your email, to see if they want to take you into further consideration (ie., checking your nationality and age, followed by what you will settle for/won't settle for.). If you pass that screening process, you'll get an email about lining up an interview. And the first person that says 'yes' to that, more often than not, wins.

You may think that I'm being blunt and sounding jaded, but I'm not. This is the general rule, despite there being some exceptions out there.

[Grotto]

[chronicpride]