Korean Job Discussion Forums

[hocbas]

[jaderedux]

I am not a fan of fake degrees however I still haven't heard anything that would explain why you think he has fake degree.

Is the person a complete wretch. Useless waste of space making more work for you? Not doing his/her job? Is he/she screwing you over on classes etc?

Have you seen it (the degree)? Is it on bad stock paper. Don't go by name there are some freaky names out there for schools. No Seal. No transcripts. Is the person way too young 20 or so?

Right now it does sound like you are just being judgemental and you put so little info out it is hard for anyone to make a judgement.

I know you feel people are being harsh but with more information there might be better opinions proffered.

Personally unless you are sure that it is fake. Like the University of Disney then I think you should let it go. These unfounded kind of accusations can really play havoc in the work place. If they aren't true you are in no win situation.

Your co-workers won't trust you ever again and your boss will have no respect for you any longer and may get in to the "thou doest protest too much syndrome".

You would gain little even if it was true. Your boss could get fined. He has to find another teacher. ($$$$) And again how will your co-workers really be able to trust you.

Think carefully this is really a no win proposition.

Tread carefully, is this the reputation you want?

Jade

[hocbas]

[jaderedux]

I am sorry I DID read your post. Again the thing that I find most disconcerting about it is that you seem to avoid the direct questions about why you doubt the veracity of this persons degree.

Have you seen it?

What specifically makes you think this?

Is this person really a bad person/teacher?

I am not asking for things that would identify the person but it would be easier to give an opinion if you were a little more forthcoming.

I have to say I am glad you don't plan to do anything. Under the circumstances that is probably best.

Jade

[indiercj]

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[jaganath69]

[chronicpride]

If you have no personal grudge with this guy and if he has caused no harm to you or anyone, then I think you gotta admit that there would be some bad karma if you were to rat him out just for the sake of principle.

Just curious, what are the telling signs that you think he has a fake? I knew a guy once who was pretty evasive about his educational history, but as it turned out he finished a real degree through distance education and he was just being a little shy and embarrassed about it, when others would be talking about their days of labs, lectures, and dorm stories.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

I have to agree with the people who said that if he's doing a reasonable job and not f-ing you in any way, let it go. You have a trump card on him if you ever need it.

Today we had a foreigner in for an interview. I got to talk to him briefly beforehand. To say the least, I warned my co-workers strenuously that while he may have UK citizenship, he is definitely *not* a native English speaker. I think they got the point; if they actually were stupid enough to hire him I'd see what he's like before I got too nosey.

[Cacique]

I guess I've got different feelings about the subject.

I think that those of us with real degrees have an interest in protecting ourselves and our profession by self-monitoring. If he does have a fake degree, and Hocbas lets it slide, what's to stop this guy from emailing his friends back home and saying, "here's how you can get a job in Korea...". Before long, more fake teachers start coming in. They tell friends, their friends tell friends, word gets around.

I have no idea how many fake teachers there are in Korea, but I'd certainly like to see them all kicked out. For one thing, they probably drive salaries down, because they have bogus credentials and will take any offer they can get. Just because the guy hasn't personally screwed Hocbas over, he's indirectly screwing over all legitimate degree-holders, just by posing as one. We need to regulate our industry, for our own benefit.

I think Hocbas, as pointed out by other posters, could get himself into hot water by telling his director, especially if it turned out to be false, but I think he has a professional obligation to call immigration and anonymously report the suspected fraud. If the guy is legit, he will probably be none the wiser to it.

That's my 2 cents.

[Metsuke]

I thought I might throw my two cents in here... But not about what you should do in the situation... more about what I just went through at the Korean Consulate in Toronto to even get my degree stamped as being real.

So in talking with my hiring school, the hiring manager told me to take my degree down to the Consulate in Toronto, where they would put their stamp on it, and then all would be well. They would make a photo copy, ect... and I could send it back down to Korea where they could take it to Immigration and my work Visa could start to get processed... and so on.

Boy... let me tell you. That was the opposite of what happened!

Before I left for the consulate, about an hour and a half drive away, I thought I should call to make sure I have everything. Just so that I didn't make the drive down there for nothing. So I call, and tell them what the guy in Korea told me. That I was supposed to come to the Consulate, and they would "Notarize" my degree.

Well the process of "Notarization" as it turns out, is not done by the Consulate, or at least not anymore... they only "Certify" notarized copies of University degrees. And to get my degree ��Notarized�� I had to go to a lawyer. I said thanks, hung up the phone. Called right back to get a different person and see what they said, they told me the same thing.

So at this point I'm sitting at home thinking WTF? I��m getting some misinformation and I don��t know what to do. To make things more complicated this day was really the only day I had to get this done�� I had a car that day, and the next day the Consulate was closed because of a Korean national holiday.

Anyways, to make a long story short, due to the working climate in Korea with people working away with fake degrees... newly hired folks like myself are having to jump through a few newly added hoops. The hoops are in place to make sure our degrees are legit and so on. Or at least that��s what��s happening in Canada currently.

I had to that same day, find a lawyer who could Notarize my degree right away, drive an hour and a half to get there, get the degree notarized, then drive to Toronto in a snow storm to the Consulate, where they stamped it... and then all was done.

So at least on my end, looks like things are being done to correct the problem of illegal teachers working in Korea who have not paid their dues and earned a University education.

In regards to the issue of what to do about this teacher. I agree pretty much with everyone else�� let sleeping dogs lie. Strategically it does little to advance yourself by pursuing it, and besides its really your schools problem to deal with. They did the hiring after all.

That being said�� the idea of someone paying for a fake degree to work in Korea bothers me a bit. In an indirect way it goes to discredit those of us who have worked for our legitimate educations. It would be interesting to see the behavioural trends of such individuals with fraudulent degrees, and how they conduct themselves while in Korea. Some may be perfectly wonderful examples of humanity. But I also wonder what some add or take away to the reputation of foreigners who teach in this industry while living in Korea.

[Lunar Groove Gardener]

The O.P. raises a few issues that are relevant to maintaining a quality work environment. First off you have a work environment where apparently it is "professional" to confer behind someone's back as to their veracity and legitamacy. (YIKES!) Put yourself in their boots. Sounds kind of CHILDISH. Do not professionals that you would emulate handle such things face to face? I do. I would discuss it with the individual candidly, and privately, why not? I also would give the benefit of the doubt in most cases, and mind my own affairs.
Your actions speak directly to possible character flaws. This is merely an opportunity to correct the same.(we all have 'em) You express in your postings here that you don't feel compelled to substantiate your claims to us, experienced teachers, though your post is soliciting advice. (info is too limited) Further you haven't responded to what I would class as pertinent inquiries as regards the efficacy of this person's performance in the workplace. (though you've likely never actually watched them teach a class!) If you consider the opinions that have been given, and clearly they are representative of people who've taught in Hagwons, there is a consensus forming which is based on the information provided. Mail order diplomas are NOT a new phenomenon, and degrees do not necessarliy make good teachers.(although they help a lot!) So far you have shown that you've spread some gossip about your suspicions, which concerns me as it may establish this negative trend amongst your peers.(cringe) I am glad that I don't work there. Eventually it'll be your turn. This is something that we all need to curtail as professionals. When you have the ability to use language, and especially when you teach it, I feel it is your duty to do so responsibly and with compassion. (nobody's perfect.)
So for me it does come down to compassion. If you continue to work in Hagwons, you will see many forms of behavior from teachers that you may find disagreeable. This holds true for most jobs. If such behavior is impacting the situation at work or the students negatively, I would first discuss it with the person involved before taking it on tour. That is just the best way of dealing with problems. It also sets the precident which I would appreciate were I the one being "talked about".
Just my $2.00 worth.
Peace.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

[hari seldon]