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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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 Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| Im with Shaku on this one. The SBS "report" was absolutely horrible. In what twisted world do YOU live in PEPPERMINT that 5% of a group is held up as an example of the entire group? The "bad teachers" (is it realy bad to go to Hongdae on the weekend anyway?) were not the only target, ALL foreign teachers were targets. |
Granted, SBS did a real hatchet job. That this wasn't the first time, that I'd be surprised if it were the last, and that I know SBS isn't unique does not detract one iota from the fact that the show was biased and shoddy in the extreme. I want to clarify this -- I didn't just sit there and watch that programme all wide-eyed and credulous. I doubt any right-thinking Korean did, either.
(BTW, DW, the "5%" figure... that was touted in the SBS show as the percentage of qualified foreign ESL teachers in Korea, wasn't it? Or did I get that wrong? And yes, it's laughable in any case.)
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| It has gotten so bad that death threats were made on the SBS site, people wanting to pay money for the death of foreign teachers. Can you imagine a CNN forum where people are offering their entire paycheck to anyone who kills a muslim? |
The sort of nitwits who make online threats, however small their actual number, certainly do contribute to an atmosphere of hostility and fear of potential violence. And I wouldn't necessarily put it past a few malcontented jerks within the local media itself to have eagerly foreseen just that. Disgusting and reprehensible.
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| A side effect of it was an attack on Korean women dating or married to foreigners. Infact, the whole anti foreigner thing quickly mutated into anti Korean women dating foreigners. Why the %*@! should my wife be a target of hate fueled by the worst reporting in the world because some foreigner is working illegally and a few foreigners go whoring in Hongdae? |
Right, and this ties in with what Peppermint said: "Obviously racism was a big factor in the "scandal " and I kept waiting for the Korean women's groups to speak up for the local women and their right to date whoever they wanted. "
Call me hopelessly jaded, but I'm not so sure that the local women's rights groups you speak of would have necessarily weighed in on this subject in quite the direction you'd hope. Like Korean consumer protection activists (YWCA & others) who spent the better part of the late 1980s and 1990s "protecting" Koreans from imported cigarettes, chocolate, cars, electronics, insurance, fast-food, and other products, it would annoy but not astound me if the local women's groups didn't turn university coeds and schoolgirls into the "victims" of male ESL teachers. (Remember the cheated & abandoned Korean wife of the Western teacher they profiled?)
(to be continued) |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 12:02 am Post subject: |
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Guys, this thread was meant to be about the gov't saving face by not being able to hire foreign teachers, and telling the public it was because they were "trying to protect" their children.
It wasn't meant to be yet another thread about SBS programming. |
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chronicpride
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| Okay JG. maybe I overstated things. First I was surprised that the women's groups were'nt leading the witchhunt for the playboy and his posters. |
Talking to another poster here that is familiar with the petition feedback on the anti-ES site, it was something like 95% male. The women support groups are probably very wise to the wounded hearts and loud internet voices of jilted Korean male netizens.
The whole ES thing had more to do with male pride than the employment standards of the ESL industry. This is why we're not seeing any MoE or Immigration policy changes from this whole episode. Just a higher profile, albeit temporary crackdown on illegals, in some parts of the country, to pacify the percentage of Koreans that got real bent out of shape about this issue and the followup TV programs.
Sorry for the tangent-break, Derrek. I do agree with you that it's pretty pathetic that schools are using a timely BS excuse to explain why they are underhiring foreign teachers. They are probably hoping that the Korean public will buy into it and become more friendly to the idea of having Koreans teach english. It'll save directors a helluva lot of money. But looking at how things are shaping up to be business as usual, their excuse is not going to fit, long-term.
Last edited by chronicpride on Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:08 am; edited 2 times in total |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:26 am Post subject: |
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One day I'm going to start a thread on space and it'll turn into a thread on E.S.-gate. It'll go like this:
New planet discovered around solar system 40 light-years away.
Comments:
-wow. That's cool.
-40 light years away? That's far. I travel far to work, but that's really far.
-You think that's far? My wonjangnim makes me travel for over two hours a day on the train.
-My wonjangnim told me this morning about a mother who came in asking about whether our hagwon was safe for children. That's ridiculous! This is me we're talking about!
-You? You were going off about the two girls you had in one night last week! I wouldn't trust you in a hagwon!
-Guys, that's the talk that divides us in a time like this. We should stick together!
-No way, you guys and anybody else deserves the bad press they get. If you weren't like that in the first place....
etc. etc.
That's how it all happens. Some call it thread hijacking but I like tangents. The problem is how to turn it back. I don't think I could get those 'people' above to start talking about space again. |
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paperbag princess
Joined: 07 Mar 2004
Location: veggie hell
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:03 am Post subject: |
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i don't understand how having sex with adults after working hours has *any* bearing on one's ability to teach.
anyway, back to the original point of this thread, i think it's hilarious that they're saying that they aren't hiring people because of a tv special and not because of their crappy positions. again, the rest of the world is watching this event and korea just looks stupid. |
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buymybook
Joined: 21 Feb 2005
Location: Telluride
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 4:57 am Post subject: I need a job |
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| Derrek wrote: |
Guys, this thread was meant to be about the gov't saving face by not being able to hire foreign teachers, and telling the public it was because they were "trying to protect" their children.
It wasn't meant to be yet another thread about SBS programming. |
Yes Derrick your so right. And, not being able to hire foreign teachers means that I still don't have a job! You people go off on wacko tangents that aren't even important in the large scheme of things. If you have a job you should be happy and be quiet. Not being able to hire foreign teachers also means that the recruiters are doing more lying than usual, watch out! |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: I need a job |
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| buymybook wrote: |
| Derrek wrote: |
Guys, this thread was meant to be about the gov't saving face by not being able to hire foreign teachers, and telling the public it was because they were "trying to protect" their children.
It wasn't meant to be yet another thread about SBS programming. |
Yes Derrick your so right. And, not being able to hire foreign teachers means that I still don't have a job! You people go off on wacko tangents that aren't even important in the large scheme of things. If you have a job you should be happy and be quiet. Not being able to hire foreign teachers also means that the recruiters are doing more lying than usual, watch out! |
You're kind of illustrating my point that they were being too picky and offering too little. If they had raised their pay to get more qualified teachers to apply, then it would have been easier for them to fill the jobs. If they had lowered their standards (not wanting to pay above 1.9 unless you had a TESL certificate or a Teaching Degree) then they would have had a larger pool of people to choose from. Also, there is the issue that the vacation went from University-like to a sucky 10 days per year.
Let me ask you....
1. Are you here in Korea? They won't hire you for one of these Public jobs unless you are here, in most cases.
2. Do you have prior teaching experience? If you do, they MIGHT hire you from overseas. If you are in-country, have experience, and check out -- without looking scary -- you would be hired.
3. Again, do you have any experience? They don't want to hire a newbee. The point was that their standards were too high as well.
4. If you do have experience, and are here, what were you demanding for pay? Do you have facial hair? Nose rings? Visible tattoos? These things all factor into whether or not they hire you (at many schools).
5. What country are you from? It depends on the school, but many of them want a certain accent. Not the case at mine, though.
6. What is your degree in?
I'm sorry you don't have a job, but these days are not at easy as when I came here three years ago. Especially if you are picky. There are a lot more local people to choose from, and they can find a teacher if their standards aren't too high. |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| They've got a right to be picky, but I think they've gotta offer better incentives. It's a non story. Govermenment couldn't get enough schmoes, so they take the convenient excuse. |
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Paji eh Wong
Joined: 03 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
So, maybe, if I was conspiracy minded I might suspect that the Ministry of Ed. is behind all this mud slinging?
Actually speaking of those "enlightened fools" I have been seeing A NUMBER of signs around (from them) asking for people to report "illegal teachers" (anyone working privately.. not just foreigners). |
I'm with this guy.
My mostly intuitive, non researched view is the bad salary conditions offered at public schools is part of a larger campaign to undermine the private "education" "industry". I think the government was hoping to drive salaries down by giving hagwons a lower benchmark they could use in negotiations, which would give them an impetus to drive down tuition.
Same thing with the ES non issue. It's an attempt to discredit hagwons by going after teachers. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| Can you imagine a CNN forum where people are offering their entire paycheck to anyone who kills a muslim? |
Well, not CNN mabye but take a boo at any Yahoo news message board. Lord. It's worse. |
SBS is a broadcasting network like CNN, supposedly. Id liken Yahoo to Naver not SBS. |
And yet the fact remains, behind a keyboard, a lot of Ameicans don't mind saying they'd like a nice tidy genocide of all muslims. |
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Grotto
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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troll of the week
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| And yet the fact remains, behind a keyboard, a lot of Ameicans don't mind saying they'd like a nice tidy genocide of all muslims. |
what no takers  |
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tommynomad
Joined: 24 Jul 2004
Location: on the move
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Grotto wrote: |
troll of the week
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| And yet the fact remains, behind a keyboard, a lot of Ameicans don't mind saying they'd like a nice tidy genocide of all muslims. |
what no takers |
I'll jump:
Some of them don't do it from behind a keyboard. Cue the Fox News jingle in 5....4....3....2.... |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:42 am Post subject: |
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| inkoreaforgood wrote: |
| peppermint wrote: |
My take on this: Spectrumgate was long overdue and it's sad that it took a bunch of Koreans making comments with racist overtones for people to realize that talking about other people the way that the Playboy and his readers did simply isn't a good thing to do.
Obviously racism was a big factor in the "scandal " and I kept waiting for the Korean women's groups to speak up for the local women and their right to date whoever they wanted. I don't think Western women will get any sort of backlash from it because there doesn't seem to be the same attitudes when Korean man dates a foreigner.
Regarding the SBS show- I think women will feel a bit of the heat from this. I had a job interview last week and they asked about my current visa status and wether or not I was working legally.
From what I've heard, immigration is starting to tighten up the rules, which might be good for the whole industry- assuming of course that they remember to inform us of the changes. I had a job |
I applied for E2 visa renewal and an F2 visa as well, almost a month ago. I went in to pick up my card and passport last friday, the date on the receipt was last friday. I got some crap story about how the gov't didn't send them enough cards, and it'll take another week for them to be ready. I'm asumming they are running some background check on my education. First time ever in 8 years!! Cover yer arse!!!
And the whole issue of women teachers being ignored, or thrown into the same basket as the males: that's Korea. Often logic and reason are missing in discussions that should require them. In Korean society, pride, ignorance and fear go together like my wife's cheesecake and coffee. Not that instant crap coffee either. It's always fun to throw a wrench into the works though, hope someone does point out the illogical obvious about the GEPIK program's claim(in a public manner). |
You're seeing too much into it. I'm inclined to believe the Korean government screwed up. With all due respect, you've been here long enough to know better. |
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