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theSeeker
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
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 Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 7:36 am Post subject: Korean "Engish teachers" that don't even speak Eng |
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What is up with this? There is a Korean grammar teacher at my school, and he can't speak English. When i talk to him he says "huh? huh? I'm sorry, i don't speak English." He teaches grammar and reading. What kind of grammar do you think this guy is teaching his students? Why on earth would an English hagwon hire a guy as an English teacher who can't speak the language. He speaks Korean 99% of the time with his classes. And they wonder why the kids don't speak English at all.
Does anyone out there think that you DON'T have to be able to speak English in order to teach grammar? I think it is absolutly nuts. I am fairly new at the school, so i haven't mentioned anything to anyone or asked anyones opinion at the school.
I gotta know what you think about this.
another funny thing. a few days ago, a guy came by the school around closing time. Several teachers were excited to see him, and it turned out that this guy used to teach at our hagwon. I introduced myself to him and attempted to talk to him and he only spoke Korean and let one of the teachers translate for him.
By the way, the school is great. I really like everyone there, they treat me kindly, they are fair, very responsive to my needs and pay me on time and really like me i think. I like my job. I am just a bit baffeled by this.
anyone else? any input? |
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sadsac
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Gwangwang
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:06 am Post subject: |
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The fact of Korean English teachers having only a basic grasp of the language is nothing new. Out of the 7 Korean staff at my previous hagwon, only 2 spoke English well enough too carry on a conversation. The others had atrocious pronounciation and listening too them tutor students was enough to make you cringe.  |
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the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:33 am Post subject: |
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our hagwan has administered a strict 'no korean speaking' policy in the classrooms for korean and foreign teachers alike.
it does more harm than good because the children are being taught poor pronuciation and poor sentence structure by the korean staff.
i walked into class the other day. the korean teacher had just finished his grammar slot.
he bought the kids a pizza in celebration for good testing grades the day before...but the delivery was late, so he left it under the teacher's podium.
on the board he printed in big block letters...
"NO TOUCH PIZZA" |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: |
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I think it is common. They can read and explain in Korean. I guess that helps some students with reading. I'm sure it's true in China and Japan and elsewhere too. I suppose in English-speaking countries you might have foreigners with good English to teach the foreign language for those who study one. It's awkward but sometimes part of your job is helping the local teachers with their English too. Or else you merely (uncomfortably?) cohabit the work area. I don't speak to them much, which they probably don't like. A common experience has been fractured communications or needed translation. It's weird.
"Me teachee Englishee too... you, em, Korea.. good?"
But a lot of them do speak quite well. Surely they worked hard to achieve that.
A lot of kids ask me to speak Korean. They know I know a little. I try to say my job is to use English. But then they don't understand so well and have trouble doing exercises that are over their heads. One guy is fluent or nearly so in Korean, but pretends to not know any so he won't use any in class. And so then the kids won't just use Korean. Then he also gets to hear everything and pretends he doesn't know. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| I'm pretty sure it's like a Latin teacher back home. Somehow I doubt any of them could go back in time and pick up a few Roman girls at a pub. |
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Saxiif
Joined: 15 May 2003
Location: Seongnam
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| This is the standard teaching style at the kind of hagwons that don't employ any foreigners (of which there are a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge number). Its not based on conversation at all, just mostly taking English sentances and parseing the grammar and explaining it in Korean. If you flip through the channels you can often find a show teaching English in this style on TV, the show will have English on the screen but 90%+ of the speaking will be in Korean. Its almost completely useless for learning how to communicate, but apparently its pretty decent for standarized tests. |
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manlyboy
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Location: Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I had two co-teachers last term. One spoke English impeccably, the other couldn't even engage in basic conversation, yet it was the latter who was the better English teacher. It was all about the attitude. While the first one saw the kids as little pissants not worthy of her presence, the other one prepared thoroughly and devoted a lot of effort and attention to the lessons. Consequently, she got the kids interested and receptive to learning, which as you all know is half the battle itself. With the other teacher, even the bright sparks quickly lost interest. Her fluency counted for nothing. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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This teaching style is not exclusive to teachers who don't speak English well. Several of the Korean teachers here speak quite good English, one of them speaks excellent English, all of them teach mostly in Korean. 
It has to do with keeping students happy and not making them work too hard. I don't know how many Korean "English" books I've seen that consist of idioms and strange expressions taken out of context and with Korean explanations following. Quite often they are used mistakenly, in improper contexts or just plain wrong. I remember looking at one book a teacher was using and finding 4 mistakes on one page. 2 of them were just mistakes involving wrong prepositions, but the other 2 were incorrect definitions. It's no wonder Koreans have trouble learning English.
It's so ridiculous, they teach these stupid kinds of things to students who can't even answer the question, "What did you do this morning?" |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
This teaching style is not exclusive to teachers who don't speak English well. Several of the Korean teachers here speak quite good English, one of them speaks excellent English, all of them teach mostly in Korean.
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Ditto here.
My new co-worker told me, 'The students love me because I stopped speaking in English and teach mostly in Korean now."
It's all about passing TOEIC and university entrance tests. When those tests finally change to more conversation and writing, we will see a change in speaking style in the classroom. Until then, Koreans are all about getting it as easy as possible to get the score. And that means learning grammar like a math problem, and learning it in Korean.
The kicker is that some of these students get into American and Canadian universities. Once they get there, the schools are shocked at how they passed entrance tests, but can't hold a conversation. The TEFL test makers has answered the complaints of the universities, and the TEFL is now changing. The TOEIC will surely follow suit... must to the horror of the Korean population. |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| The TEFL test makers has answered the complaints of the universities, and the TEFL is now changing. The TOEIC will surely follow suit... must to the horror of the Korean population. |
Yes. To the horror of East Asians in general TOEIC is going to make the speaking section of their exam much more important points-wise in future.
The thing about Korean teachers who can't speak English (and I've worked with a few. Guys mainly. The female Korean teachers seem to be a much higher level conversation-wise than the males) is that they are explaining grammar rules in Korean. I've heard through the walls at a hagwon a male Korean teacher speak in Korean without pause for 40 minutes. The students didn't open their mouths once.
It's the Korean style. Teacher lectures. That's why some hagwons buy those stupid Uni-style podiums/lecterns for the classrooms. |
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theSeeker
Joined: 18 Jun 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you all know that the TOEFL is changing, starting September of this year? It will now contain a speaking section. |
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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Thankfully at my hogwon we have a no korean policy that is kept to by everyone. My boss, who is the only other teacher, at the hogwon used to teach toefl at a university. SHe also lived in the states for a few years so her english is really good. OUr students are learning a lot and learning how to communicate. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Saxiif wrote: |
| This is the standard teaching style at the kind of hagwons that don't employ any foreigners (of which there are a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge number). Its not based on conversation at all, just mostly taking English sentances and parseing the grammar and explaining it in Korean. If you flip through the channels you can often find a show teaching English in this style on TV, the show will have English on the screen but 90%+ of the speaking will be in Korean. Its almost completely useless for learning how to communicate, but apparently its pretty decent for standarized tests. |
It's called the Grammar-Translation Method. You can thank the Japanese for introducing it to Korea. Korean language schools before the Japanese invasion were using the Direct Method, although it isn't ideal it had some success in producing very good speakers of English. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
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| The TEFL test makers has answered the complaints of the universities, and the TEFL is now changing. The TOEIC will surely follow suit... must to the horror of the Korean population. |
Yes. To the horror of East Asians in general TOEIC is going to make the speaking section of their exam much more important points-wise in future.
The thing about Korean teachers who can't speak English (and I've worked with a few. Guys mainly. The female Korean teachers seem to be a much higher level conversation-wise than the males) is that they are explaining grammar rules in Korean. I've heard through the walls at a hagwon a male Korean teacher speak in Korean without pause for 40 minutes. The students didn't open their mouths once.
It's the Korean style. Teacher lectures. That's why some hagwons buy those stupid Uni-style podiums/lecterns for the classrooms. |
TOEIC is routinely slammed by linguists as not being a good yardstick of communicative competence. Worse yet, Koreans study Korean-English in school, and then stress themselves for this exam that tests a different kind of English. |
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tzechuk
Joined: 20 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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I once asked the very same question. I asked my friend who has been here since 1972 that why is it that professors can write perfect English (even with a bit of humour in) but cannot speak fluent English.
Answer: they learned only grammar at school so that they are perfect at grammar but not speaking.
I guess it is still the same here. I haven't come across an English teacher who can totally not speak any English though. |
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