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casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon
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 Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
���� ���. |
My guess is you're either Korean or you live with a Korean.... am I right? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Derrek wrote: |
Ok, I'm giving away secrets learned from hard knocks...
I'm not telling this information as "player information." I'm telling this in case you have a girl you TRULY like and want to have a serious long-term commitment to.
Rule #1: You like Korea, or can at least get admit you can get used to it.
Rule #2: Never say that you are going home at the end of your contract. She will ask you when you are leaving, and if not soon, how long you plan to stay. If you are planning to leave at the time, and tell her, she will likely close you out.
Rule #3: Have a good, intelligent reason why you want to stay in Korea.
Rule #4: Call or text her daily.
If a Korean girl likes you, you are expected to read her mind. Some of them are downright impossible to figure out. Others are obvious. It is culturally beaten into their brains to NOT make it obvious that they like you. It's all about saving face. If you like a girl, you have to keep on it. You have to call her or at least text her every day. Something I learned while riding in a car with Itaewonguy and Kiwiboy -- you have to PUSH them to meet you, sometimes. I almost think they try to make you push them, just to prove that you think of them as someone you REALLY want to see.
Rule #5: Try to kiss after 3 or 4 dates (good girl you truly like)
If she is a "respectable" girl, you should not try to kiss her for at least 3 dates, in my book. She might bolt if you try before then. On the third date, if you feel you have an opportune moment, then try to kiss her. But EXPECT to be denied. Just EXPECT that. She may want to kiss you, but many girls are taught that they should deny you. After the next date or two, IF you have an opportune moment, then try again. But she may DENY you once more and pull away.
Rule #6: Be a man
This is where it gets sort of uncomfortably weird for me. Here, you are sort of expected, as man, to "push" it. Nice boys don't finish first here -- they become long-term English-speaking pals, or don't get called back because they confused the girl. After she denies you this second or third time, try again that same date. I'm not saying attack the woman, I just mean try to give her a gentle "first kiss." My experience is that if a girl is going to be interested in you, she'll kiss you within 5 dates, or at least make it darned obvious in some way that she does like you. If she never intends to kiss you, she will likely freak out majorly and let you know it the first time you try. From my experience, that is the time to cut her loose, if you don't want to be strung along. But if she just politely pulls away, or says, "not yet," you're going to be kissing in the near future, so long as you keep up daily contact and meeting her.
Rule #7: Rules don't pertain to everyone in every situation
I might also metion that you shouldn't use this as a 100% guarenteed lithmus test to figure a Korean girl out. I dated a girl for 5 months before we even kissed, but it was obvious she liked me because she was in consistant daily contact with me, often gave me little gifts, and didn't mind holding my arm and later my hand on dates (that took 3 months). She is just VERY conservative, and I am 100% sure this girl is a virgin. We never had sex, either, and we dated 8 months. I also dated other people during that time, because she told me I should -- knowing we could never be. We broke it off because we had a big age difference (like 14 years) and she didn't even want to think about marriage for another 10 years. We always knew there was an expiration date on our romance, so it was expected.
Her parents know me sort of by accident, and like me, but didn't know we were dating. I'm sure they'd freak if they knew their 21 year-old daughter was dating an ajosshi foreigner! They thought we were just friends, and they are glad she has a foreign friend to learn English from (she is an English major). Her mom even chatted with me online a few times. Well, we still are good friends.
It was obvious to my ex-gf, however that her parents would NEVER allow her to marry a foreigner one day anyway. We split, but remain good friends to this day and text daily still -- mulitple times. She knows all about my new girlfriend, and is a little jealous (perhaps very jealous, but she'd never let me know that), and she says she's happy for me. I really think she's a wonderful lady, and I hope she meets a nice guy before she graduates college, or soon thereafter. I intend for this woman to be a life-long friend.
My current girlfriend took about 4 to 5 dates to kiss. I was denied the first two times I tried to kiss her (dates 3 and 4). But I didn't give up. I knew she liked me too, because she was often bringing me the gifts, etc.... chocolates, or a snack from a store, etc. That's a good indicator that a girl likes you, if she does that a few times or more.
She came to my house on our third date, but swears I shocked her when I asked her to come over. She thought I meant just come to this area near my home to go out. But I walked her to my apartment, and she sort of freaked a little over that -- could have been an act, though. She gave me this little sermon about how she would have gotten upset if I were a Korean guy and done that to her... but she also apologized because she misunderstood my letter to her that day, where I asked her to, "come over to my area."
Three months later, we're in love, and ordered the couple-rings last week. She doesn't hold anything back. If she were younger, maybe she would have been more conservative, but she's 32. She's on her way over tonight, which is good, because I miss her a lot.
Oh, Rule #8: It's your fault -- expect her to act like a child.
If there's a problem, it's your fault, and she'll react like a spoiled, bratty child and expect you to come crawling to her and keep after her even if she seems she won't forgive you. This goes for friendships with Korean girls as well (when you argue). Sure, I like to think I'm tough, but it's sort of the "man's responsibility" to kiss her butt when something wrong happens. I NEVER would do this before, and would NEVER keep a girl past the first fight. I have made adjustments, though, and this girl is still around after the first fight. Then again, I think Rule #8 is cross-cultural, or at least in part.
If I learn more rules in the future, I'll let you know. |
Just how successful has all that butt-kissing been, I mean, really??
What you are doing is handing ALL the power to a woman, constantly, on an ongoing basis...You are taking all the emotional risks, initiating everything, playing to her tantrums and her timelines, doing everything her way...She just sits back and reprimands you whenever she has a mood swing...its all too easy for her.She gives nothing..
STUFF THAT!!
I don't believe that real couples come about after a long, exhaustive friendship with the man grovelling for months on end. Especially if she acts like an emotional infant (ie a lot of Korean women). If she's being a hard to get ice princess, bin her, rapidly. Its entirely likely you'll be chasing her for months with little comeback, until some guy suddenly sweeps her off her feet and she's gone in an instant.
No, in my view, both people know upon first meeting if somethings possibly going to happen or not. If it is, then it happens rather faster than the Korean "2 year to holding hands" concept. If you find its a case of endless games, then somethings wrong, and its not meant to be. If a woman really likes you, she will open up a lot quicker. If it has any credibility, you'll be getting physical at the first sign of alcahol, on the second/third date."Friends first" is a fallacy. |
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indiercj
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| casey's moon wrote: |
| indiercj wrote: |
���� ���. |
My guess is you're either Korean or you live with a Korean.... am I right? |
You guessed it right. I am Korean. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:39 am Post subject: |
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I don't buy into thiss whole "princess holds all the power" and the man must act like a begging puppy dog forever and a day until she finally gives the donkey that carrot. It shouldn't take months of game-playing agony to decide wether you like someone or not: they're just enjoying having their egos pampered.
They can Ram it.
If a woman likes you, Korean or otherwise, she will give you signs, hints, and attention. She will even ask you out on dates. The more princessy ones will go as far as to make strong hints that you should ask her out. Its difficult for them, they're used to doing nothing whatsoever, but if they like you, trust me, they will. |
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adventureman
Joined: 18 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:09 am Post subject: |
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..
Last edited by adventureman on Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:26 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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John Henry
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Wait a minute.
So men and women are sometimes "friends" without a sexual relationsihp?
Do people actualy waste their time with that?
I mean, what's the point? |
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indiercj
Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| John Henry wrote: |
Wait a minute.
So men and women are sometimes "friends" without a sexual relationsihp?
Do people actualy waste their time with that?
I mean, what's the point? |
Err.. maybe having a relationship? Do you really think knowing another human being is wasting your time?
Last edited by indiercj on Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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John Henry
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Well, knowing SOME human beings is a waste of time. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I think the basic thing is to realise which women are available to you and which aren't. Too many guys waste forever on women who have no intention of giving it up, and are just soaking up the ego boost you're giving them.
If a woman likes you, she'll listen and respond when you talk..hold eye contact..laugh at your jokes..touch you now and again...etc. If she's not into you, you'll know by the body language and tone.
Women don't really change their minds about you...if you're not getting anywhere after 2/3 weeks, move on. You can always tell if there's real possibility or not.
Dating ultra conservatives and "getting to know them first" is a sweet idea..but remember you have emotional/physical needs too. Don't take too much care of hers, at the expense of your own. Its not all about her.
>>>>>>>>>is my advice... |
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jinglejangle
Joined: 19 Feb 2005
Location: Far far far away.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| indiercj wrote: |
| John Henry wrote: |
Wait a minute.
So men and women are sometimes "friends" without a sexual relationsihp?
Do people actualy waste their time with that?
I mean, what's the point? |
Err.. maybe having a relashionship? Do you really think knowing another human being is wasting your time? |
I'm with stupid.
Life should be one big orgy.
If you're not drunk, having some form of intercourse, getting high, or mocking others, you're not doing anything worthwhile.
Really, this whole attitude that life exists to support procreation is depressing.
You wanna screw than screw, but don't focus you're whole life around it. |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| adventureman wrote: |
Sakuhachi, that website seemed very interesting to me. Have you actually TRIED that guys advice with all that talk about introducing patterns into the conversation to get a girl interested in you, et al, and has it had proven sucess for you? Anyway, I a lot seemed like be hard to initiate becasue of the language barier and some of it seemed even seemed like it might be a scam there trying to get you buy into so you pay money to hear him give a seminar. Anyway its not like feel totally ackward or scared everytime I talk to a girl. I feel like I have I reasonable amount of self-confidence around women. Im just confused about certain issues. And, I don't really agree with treating women as objects anyway which it seems like that website advocated |
Sure, that stuff works. Before you think about introducing patterns and other complicated stuff, you need to learn to make approaches (you will get used to rejection). The site doesnt treat women as 'objects', it just advises people to keep a reasonable point of view. Put it this way. Just because a girl is a 'good girl' with you doesnt mean she wont put out on the first date for another guy. How does that make you feel?
As for my personal experience with dating girls... lets say ive made about 2000+ street approaches and these days I get the number about 95% of the time. Of those I have to pick and choose which ones I actually date because I dont have time for them all, and then there is the fact that I have a girlfriend. Be careful of the advice you might get on this board, especially the female advice - nothing they say will help you get laid.
Shakuhachi - 100+ club |
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peppermint
Joined: 13 May 2003
Location: traversing the minefields of caddishness.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
Shakuhachi - 100+ club |
how many of those were conscious? |
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shakuhachi
Joined: 08 Feb 2003
Location: Sydney
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
| shakuhachi wrote: |
Shakuhachi - 100+ club |
how many of those were conscious? |
Whatever. What do you feel more proud of - this cheap shot? or your willful misinterpretation of my story? |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| shakuhachi wrote: |
| peppermint wrote: |
| shakuhachi wrote: |
Shakuhachi - 100+ club |
how many of those were conscious? |
Whatever. What do you feel more proud of - this cheap shot? or your willful misinterpretation of my story? |
I think it's a fair question. What percentage of those woman were sober enough to form full sentences, keep their eyes open, or give legal consent? |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
I don't buy into thiss whole "princess holds all the power" and the man must act like a begging puppy dog forever and a day until she finally gives the donkey that carrot. It shouldn't take months of game-playing agony to decide wether you like someone or not: they're just enjoying having their egos pampered.
They can Ram it.
If a woman likes you, Korean or otherwise, she will give you signs, hints, and attention. She will even ask you out on dates. The more princessy ones will go as far as to make strong hints that you should ask her out. Its difficult for them, they're used to doing nothing whatsoever, but if they like you, trust me, they will. |
I agree with the last paragraph totally, but the first paragraph is a bit of a misunderstanding of what I was talking about. Maybe I should explain better. I don't believe in giving in to the Princessy attitude, and I don't believe in waiting and being strung along forever. As you said, a girl will usually hint to you that she likes you, but if no progress is made after a while, then it's time to move on. That's also why I said you should try to "be the man" and attempt to kiss her a couple of times by maybe date 4 or 5. If by this time, or within a few dates after, she's still pulling away, it's time to move on and don't call her again. I'm not talking about "friends" girls here.
Yes, I believe in being "friends" with people of the opposite sex. I will warn you, however. I was friends with a Korean girl for nearly 1 1/2 years, and this weekend, she got all weird and blew up at me for being 10 minutes late in meeting her (I was 5 minutes late on a few occasions before, and I guess this was just too much?). And she knew about the lateness ahead of time. I interpreted it as anger at the fact that I have a girlfriend, and she seems to be jealous of that. I actually introduced my gf to her, and since then, this friend has been weird and tried to get me to break it off with her. My girlfriend handled it pretty well after they met.
Oh, and to those of you who didn't like the "patterns" or whatever -- I'm just trying to give some tips about dating from what I've learned. It's not an obstacle course you must follow exactly or something. |
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