Korean Job Discussion Forums

billybrobby · Joined: 09 Dec 2004

This was brought up in the "I have to laugh" thread and I thought I'd make a poll of it.

Stuff to think about:

Are people who complain about Korean people's mindsets but can't even read a Korean magazine being stupid?

If a guy lives in Korea for 10 years and can't speak Korean, can you really say he doesn't understand the place?

Are people who don't speak Korean living in a weird little world of their own that doesn't have much to do with the 'real' Korea?

If you see a Korean guy beating his wife do you really need to know Korean to say its wrong?

Can you write off Korea as a crap place before learning Korean?

mithridates · Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:33 pm Post subject:

I voted yes because the question was "to understand Korea." If it was "to criticize" or "give constructive" advice to Korea, I would have voted no.

eamo · Joined: 08 Mar 2003 Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

My stand on learning Korean is that it will make life easier and more enjoyable.

Essential? For the long-termer, high-beginner or low-intermediate Korean would be the minimum requirement to really get on in life here. At some point, a lack of Korean will detrimental.

Do you have to know Korean to understand Koreans? No. There are lots of Koreans who speak English well enough to communicate the finer points of the Korean mindset.

Billyrobby....love your avatar. Van is my God. Is that picture from around the St. Domincs Preview period?

Badmojo · Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:49 pm Post subject:

I'll tell you this much, you don't need to speak Korean to understand if you like the place or not.

That's all that matters to me.

And I don't necessarily buy into the belief that people would like the place more if they could understand the language. Maybe ignorance is bliss.

ladyandthetramp · Joined: 21 Nov 2003

Chillin' Villain · Joined: 13 Mar 2003 Location: Goo Row

Ya-ta Boy · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994

While speaking the language would certainly help, it would require several years to speak it well enough to have truly in-depth discussions of an academic nature.

If knowing the language is essential to understand another culture, then a whole lot of people are wasting a whole lot of time reading anthropology and ethnology books, not to mention travel books and newspaper articles about other cultures.

tzechuk · Joined: 20 Dec 2004

I doubt that even if you can speak fluent Korean you will totally understand the culture and their mindsets...

indiercj · Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Location: Seoul

Once you learn the language you realize what BS you've been relying on before as source of information. What some fluent and non fluent Korean speaking westerners have been told me about the west is quite different form what I learned reading Dave's. I guess the latter is more closer to Real Reality(Gosh I never thought I would ever use this word). Come on, learn the language people.

skinsk05 · Joined: 09 Mar 2005 Location: Jeonju

I don't want to be redundant; several people have already made informed and accurate observations. If you resist learning Korean, then your scope of vision and experience is limited. Those who have learned know the difference. (Due to on and off residence, I've been a high beginner in Korean for awhile). This is a case of metaphysics, where we each create our own reality limited only by our own imagination and committment.

Of course, there is no "real" Korea, "real" USA, "real" Canada. . . (or would the latter be like "The Red Green Show". . .and is the "real" America the one we see on "reality" shows? Is the real Korea (Will the real Korea please stand up?) the old one or this one? Is North Korea real? What if I put it in quotes, "North Korea"? How can we have so many diverse opinions as Westerners if there's a real life? Do I need to take a particular pill or click my heels to get back to the real "USA"? When I got back in 2002, the (real) news was SHOUTING to buy duct tape and plastic sheeting to seal off our rooms in the case of biochemical attacks. People were buying. Stores were selling out. Now what might a foreigner (especially one who couldn't speak the language (which, in this case is English) think of the "real" America?

Oh--was it a yes or no poll? OK, I have too much free time in Korea!

Mashimaro · Joined: 31 Jan 2003 Location: location, location

do you have to speak korean too understand korea... not sure... probably.
Are many people on this board blinded by their own very limited experience of life (home to hagwon to home to bar to hang out with other people who work in hagwons to home) Their is a certainly a world beyond those confines which many people fail to see.

billybrobby · Joined: 09 Dec 2004

I just don't buy the fact that you can learn a lot about Korea from having English conversations with Korean friends.

The average Korean can't speak English well enough to say anything useful. So the only people you can get info from are a small, educated, priviledged group. Well, they may not be especially priviledged, but they're not the norm.

I mean, I could try to explain America to you, but what could I say about black America? (i'm white) What could I say about growing up in Kansas? (never been there) Not much really. To really get a feel for America you'd have to talk to a broad range of Americans. I don't think you can easily find a 'broad range' within the relatively small group of Koreans who speak English well enough to converse on deep topics.

What about the construction workers?
What about the drop-outs?
What about the legless bums who crawl along the streets?
What about President Roh?

There's a whole world of Koreans who don't speak English and how do we get their opinions?

[eamo-- my avatar comes from the cover of an album called The Early Years 67-68. Guess its from that era, but I'd have to see the hairline to be sure. Van is good, isn't he?]

eamo · Joined: 08 Mar 2003 Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

JongnoGuru · Joined: 25 May 2004 Location: peeing on your doorstep

I would say that fluency will definitely facilitate a better understanding of Korea, but I don't know that it guarantees one. In the end, it depends as much on the perceptibility and sensitivity of the observer, as it does on their Korean fluency.

Depending on what aspect of Korea one is seeking to understand, fluency PLUS the perspective that comes with long periods of time spent living here can be of immeasurable value -- or it can be almost irrelevant. Really, I think "understanding Korea" is just too broad a statement. We each of us have our own particular areas of experience, interest, expertise and such, irrespective of our level of language fluency.

Remember, too, that Koreans, individually and collectively, aren't so different than people anywhere. They forget, misread, hotly disagree amongst themselves, draw illogical lessons, or just plain "get things wrong" about their own country, history, culture, traditions, etc. So, for someone who is perceptive, the "better undertstanding" of Korea they get from becoming fluent in Korean does not mean they automatically put on blinders, side with Korea on issues of debate, or even learn to love kimchee.

Getting further off-topic here, but....
An aesthetic distance, not to say a geographic and linguistic one as well, isn't always a handicap. Indeed, it has even been an advantage in many cases, such as De Tocqueville on America, Ishiguro on Britain, Conrad on Western Europe, South America, North America, Cuba, Malay, the Belgian Congo -- hell, just about anywhere outside of Poland.

kangnamdragon · Joined: 17 Jan 2003 Location: Kangnam, Seoul, Korea

I think one needs to speak Korean well, but not be fluent. I am not fluent but I understand Korea well. It also depends on how much time one spends with Koreans and what type of relationships one has with Koreans. Is one married to a Korean? Does one have many Korean friends? Also, I think one who speaks Korean well and has only lived here a couple years, does not understand Korea.