Korean Job Discussion Forums

[periwinkle]

My co-worker is very educated; has lived/studied in the west; married a kyopo. We were having a small celebration at work yesterday, and he asked me, "Can you use chopsticks?" I thought he was being funny, and the question struck me as so absurd (he knows I've been here for 4 years), that I busted out laughing. I asked him if he was serious, and he seemed really confused that I thought it was a funny question.

Anytime I've used sarcasm with my Korean co-workers, even if their English is spectacular, it takes awhile for them to get it. My comments really aren't that dry, either. Maybe it's in the delivery- they see the straight face and don't get the connection. I'm so misunderstood (double entendre)... Man! Now I feel the need to spell everything out. I realize nuances are very difficult for non-native speakers to grasp, however.

I would really like to see a Korean movie or tv show (I need the subtitles, though) that uses a lot of sarcasm, because I don't see it very often. My sense of humor is fairly sarcastic (I'm not nasty, though- a bit wry, maybe), so I think I'm at a disadvantage here. I think I offended my co-worker a little when I laughed at his question, but I apologized and told him that I thought he was being sarcastic.

I'll give you another example: I was with some other co-workers (I spend too much time at work), and my co-worker gave me a locker key. I told him (deadpan) I didn't like that locker number, and I wanted my favorite number. He was shocked, so I told him I was kidding. He told me I scared him.

[ersatzprofessor]

Did it occur to you that maybe lots of Koreans have already been sarcastic with you, but you were unable to pick up on it either?

[Swiss James]

on my first night out with some koreans a massive dog walked past and one of the girls I was with said
"mmm he looks delicious"

me:
her:

[Koreabound2004]

I don't think they use sarcasm too often....but they do ask dumb questions like they asked you.

Obviously if you have been here that long they *should* know that you are able to use chopsticks.

I have only been here 7 months, but I still get asked ridiculous questions, and I always want to think they are being sarcastic...but 99% of the time, they are not.

Question yesterday from high school student: Miss, do you ONLY eat sandwiches? (in all seriousness)

Me: No, do you ONLY eat rice and kimchi?

I have learned that most folks here can't take a joke...and don't enjoy sarcasm...or understand it too much. Perhaps in their own language they might use it...but I don't know enough Korean to figure that out yet.

[kermo]

I see a lot of clowning around and exaggerating in Korean humour, but not a lot of the understated stuff (okay, I could just be missing it completely, but around me, crowds of Korean people don't often burst out laughing at a straight-faced statement.)

I don't really attempt sarcasm around Koreans, since the Americans and English girls around me seem to have such a hard time with it. I use irony, but it's usually with a silly expression on my face.

You know who doesn't get irony? The Russians! They have no use for it at all.

[Intrepid]

Kermo writes:

[periwinkle]

Did you ask them why they would think that you only eat sandwiches? I'm going to start questioning their logic (or lack of it).

I should have asked my co-worker why he would ask me such an inane question.

On a side note, my carpool buddies asked me if I was going to apply for Korean citizenship. I visualized 10 years down the road still being greeted with a robust "Welcome to Korea!"

[periwinkle]

In my defense, I'm talking across the board, not handfuls of people.

[tzechuk]

[canadian_in_korea]

I think perhaps your co-worker didn't want to assume anything...and in the end embarass you. I did the same thing, I asked a friend who lived here for a few years if she could eat with chopsticks. Why?...why would i assume she could?...I've often heard people complain that no matter how hard they tried they could just never get the hang of it. Now when I annoy my husband and say....would you like a fork or chopsticks?.......that is being sarcastic.......He does surprise me sometimes when he makes a sarcastic remark.......Sarcasm is very difficult often because you have to know why the sarcastic remark means something at the point. And if you don't understand the cultural background, you most likely won't understand why the person is saying what they are. Now if he had asked you if youcould use a fork...I would say that would have been a little bit sarcastic.....but most likely he didn't at that point think of how long you have been in korea....just that you are a foreigner and maybe you couldn't use chopsticks.

[mercury]

The Korean girls love to use it here. Once I was taking taekwondo, some of the women teachers at school were calling me the 'great white polar bear'. I had to spar with little kids and they would not let up . The guy teachers never said a word. I think women do it when they want to flirt.

[Badmojo]

[schwa]

I dont think "sarcasm" is the right word for any of the examples above. Sarcasm has more the nature of a putdown, intended to be biting or insulting.

Ironic humor, or simply "irony," in the sense of saying one thing & meaning another, seems closer.

Yeh thats a tough one for 2nd-language learners -- their focus is on primary literal meaning.

With younger students I like to "pull their legs," but the false straightfaced claim has to be fairly outrageous. For example, "Yes of course there are flying horses in Canada," or "In my country 1 + 1 = 3." They have to process the words, the meaning dawns on them, their first response is confusion, then they laugh. Good language exercise, I figure.

I also teach near-fluent adults, some for over 5 years, & its been a very gradual process getting them to "get" my ironic humor. But they know me well enough now to not necessarily take my words at face value & it amuses them to catch me leading them on.

All humor depends on surprise, & everybody loves to laugh. I'd be surprised if Koreans didnt have a similar form of subtle humor among themselves.

[mercury]

from WK enc.


Sarcasm is the making of remarks intended to mock the person referred to (who is normally the person addressed), a situation or thing. It is often used in a humorous manner and expressed through particular vocal intonations. This is often done by simply over-emphasizing the actual statement, or particular words of it.

Because it is vocally-oriented, sarcasm is often hard to pick up in written messages and is often misinterpreted. To prevent this, sarcastic comments on the Internet are usually ended with an emoticon or surrounded with <sarcasm> .. </sarcasm> tags. (This is popular on Slashdot.)

The word comes from the late Latin word, sarcasmus, which, in turn, comes from the Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein - to bite the lips in rage,- from sarx, sark-, flesh.

It was described as "the lowest form of wit" by Oscar Wilde. In 1983, Leonard Rossiter published a book titled The Lowest Form of Wit (ISBN 0722175132) which includes the history of sarcasm, rules of sarcasm, and many sarcastic comments by notable individuals.

The term is often misused as a synonym for irony. Irony refers however to the literal meaning and the intended meaning of the words uttered being different, while sarcasm refers to the mocking intent of the utterance. It is possible to be ironic without being sarcastic, and to be sarcastic without being ironic.

Sarcasm is also often confused with cynicism, which in common use is seen as a fundamental nihilistic attitude towards other people and life, whereas sarcasm can often be seen even as a positive way of thinking about things.

[indiercj]

I just wonder if it is such an embarassing thing to simply answer them "Yes, I do use chopstick pretty well." or "Oh I do eat other yummys but, I love sandwiches" without using the worlds like "sarcasm", "lack of logic", "dumb".

I totally agree with schwa. It is different. Most of the time western style sarcasm isn't funny to them. Just like theirs don't work for you.