Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Mody Ba]

Yeah...Doughboy...you REALLY stick to the issue.Your posts are full of mantras,apple pies,blah,blah,blah
personally,I cannot speak about NET and JET,becuase I have no personal experience in either one.What I have heard about JET is mostly positive.What I have heard about NET has been mixed.However,I DO have personal experience of EPIK...and it REEKS.LIESLIES<AND MORE LIES.That is EPIK's mantra.

[Anda]

EPIK does have a terrible record for honesty that is one thing that anyone who has spent time in the program would have to admit.

Some of the old scams were. Promising one level to an EPIK in their home country and then droping the level on arrival. Telling EPIKS that they would go up a level after they had been here a year and then refusing to put them up a level with the excuess that they had only worked a fifty week contract which is two weeks short of a year. Promising some, single accommodation and then putting them into shared accommodation. And of course the fifty week contract I consider was a scam. Droping conditions like travel fares on travel schools and having EPIKS pay these costs was another example of stupidity. Of course many other conditions have been played with, like working during school holidays where one used to get paid extra but now most don't get any extra.

Anyone who says that the program has a good record of management when the above have been allowed to happen is blind to reality. The only reason anything ever gets done honestly in EPIK is when they are confronted with not being able to get hardly any foreign teachers into the program.

The next contract at least on paper states that EPIKS will be paid for the two weeks between contracts and will get greater holidays. New starters are to be paid severance at the end of their first contract like everywhere else in Korea has to do. Still experianced teachers have to front two weeks of unpaid training that in reguard to teaching here is next to useless.

Now Japan's JET sticks to the terms of their contract and doesn't play petty games and maintains contract conditions from one year to the next. This is the reason that JET can get the numbers they do constantly. EPIK on the other hand plays stupid games from one year to the next with the few teachers that they do get into the program and hasn't been able to attract even a hundred a year into the program for the last three years.

Despite the drawbacks many have been able to make a go of things in EPIK and enjoy their stays here. I compare EPIK with Hogwans and Universities here in Korea. I have worked for the lot and find that EPIK is on par for honesty with them but that I can get more support for classroom control in EPIK than in most hogwans and get access to photocopying more so than in Hogwans. Univerities in general have worse management problems than public schools do. So I still work in a school here by choice. I support EPIK for what I consider it is and that is a better choice for working in Korea for most.

For a person with the right paperwork and a suitable age then yes they can get into one of the better universities here but there are not many of these.

People usually find that they like working in one country or the other. I like Korea and have done for a long time despite the problems here.

[Mody Ba]

Like he states,EPIK LIES(and have lied in the past).And Anda has been in the program for multiple years...so he should know.I agree with him on this one.

[Mosley]

Actually, "King Rat"(aka SCSA), the "numbers DON'T lie". However, the numbers I cited were RELEVANT to the comparison of JET w/EPIK. It matters not a rat's patooey when a country joined the UN, the International Association of Cocker Spaniel Lovers or any other red herring that you care to trot out. I suppose your point was to try to make S.Korea look like a poor little cousin to Japan and as such suggest that EPIK can't be anything like JET. Strange, then, that this poor little cousin maintains one of the world's largest & best-equipped armed forces; has companies that are now household names around the world; has hosted a Summer Olympics and co-hosted a World Cup(welcome back from that Guam jungle if you missed that one). Doesn't sound like a Third World backwater, does it? Koreans themselves never tire of telling all & sundry that Korea is in the "Rich Man's Club" of the world. As for your fantasy of me(or anyone else) feeling "inferior" to you, I'm rolling on the floor,p****** myself laughing!!! Yeah, the very letters "SCSA" cause me to shout "I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy....." !!!!!!!!!

[Circus Monkey]

SCSA,

I think you might have an answer here in regards to applying an equal set of criteria. Anda provided an excellent commentary. Does it appear that JET is more honest with their employees that EPIK? It would appear so.

CM

[Circus Monkey]

SCSA,

As well, and forgive me if you answered this point already, but I think the reasons why people say both EPIK and JET can be compared is because both share similar, if not identical qualities:

Both are sponsored by the national level government
Both have an element of cultural exchange
Both have a teaching element
Both invite foreign university grads
Both seek to improve the English speaking level of students

I realize that both programs may have a different configuration in delivering these goals (and perhaps that is where some problems are?) but are they so dissimilar?

I should add that I have no experience in EPIK or JET but am basing my comments on each programme's websites.

CM

[Austin]

What is the value in any comparison in life?

Are you better off when you compare yesterday to today?

Are you better of comparing your old girlfriend to your new girlfriend?

I just do not see what good can come out of making a comparison between EPIK and JET.

Every moment in life is unique and different, and that is why the majority of the personal banter on this site is useless, because our experiences are going to be different. Facts are helpful, but the rest can be removed!

Lies, yes for certain, but who would have been foolish enought to believe them in the first place? Are not they responsible for their own ignorance?

SCSA

[Mosley]

Hey, SCSA, except for "JET", "EPIK" and "personal banter on this site", your monologue was an almost verbatim replica of the last words of Dr. Goebbels in the Berlin bunker, May 1, 1945.

[Anda]

I think Austin that most young people just out of university from a western country that apply to work in a goverment education program in a foreign country would not be expecting to come up against petty cheating on a contract written by a goverment department. Korea isn't seen as being Nigeria in most peoples mind.

There has to be resons why after a number of years that EPIK has problems getting teachers into the program. The main reason for this is the fact that not that many have been able to make the adjustments needed to make a success of working here in the public schools. Those that experiance problems don't recomend the program when they get back to their home country. For instance some who had worked a number of years in EPIK were cheated one year in Chollanamdo on their severance pay for quite a bit of money. Others have left for other acts of dishonesty so these people become embittered and spread what has happened to them. These same people may have had quite a good time in EPIK but can't get over being cheated so run their stay down in EPIK.

I personally don't get too upset about being cheated here and there. The place that really cheated me was Cheju National University but the people in the faculty of the university where I worked were great to me. The dishonesty was from the main office outside of the faculty where I worked.

It is better to say things as they are so those that read can make a judgement on where it is better overall to work here in Korea and what can be expected. Starting with EPIK with starry eyes for the program isn't very safe. Those that join the program expecting some problems are those that are more likely to survive.

[Mody Ba]

states"lies,but who would have been foolish enough to believe them in the first place?"
Well,SCSA,they did not KNOW they were lies at first,obviously.You are fighting a losing battle guy.Better go back to the kitchen and bake a few more pies.

[Austin]

Claiming ignorance is no excuse.

You can not blame others for your false expectations that things were going to be like they were where you came from. The fault is entirely yours to bear.

Do you believe what a salesperson tells you about a product, or do you read the warranty?

SCSA

I can hear you, "But you told me...and promised me...!"

It is like they say, you deserve everything you get in life.

[long-term-player]

Can you believe it- with all the ongoing discussion of the most disgraceful (dishonest) foolish (?) attributes of EPIK on the two threads here, they have the nerve to post further lies on the Job vacant board.

""EPIK participants work with middle and high school students and have unique opportunities to interact with Korean school teachers and administrators in various locations throughout the Korean peninsula""

If ever you needed proof of the lies this organization perpetuates, just read the ad. God help the applicants who don�t read this thread.

But it has already got about 800 vists,, so within 6 months we will see this Board liven up again as the new recruits discover they were deceived.

[Mody Ba]

Sooooooo,SCSA..."the fault is theirs entirely to "bare"(sic!!"teacher")
Again,SCSA,more spurious analogies.If I buy a product and I can prove the salesperson knowingly deceived me,I have legal remedies.Your analogies are not out in left field,guy.Your analogies are not even in the ballpark.
Maybe after your stint as an EPIK apologist,you can go get a gig as...a fry cook or something.Go....guy...back to the kitchen.Whip up a meringue or quiche or something and take it to your principal.

Long-termer...excellent post.When will they(EPIK) ever learn?Perhaps never.

[Anda]

Dear Long Term Player the EPIk ad isn't stating any lies as such. Perhaps it's colouring things but lying no.

http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/korea/index.cgi?read=9451

[schwa]

Some parts of this thread are degenerating but its still a useful debate -- I hope would-be applicants might be following the discussion. Discerning readers might notice that certain personality types gravitate to one side or the other, & it might be a good self-litmus test to predict if youre going to have a reasonable time with the program.

Are you easily riled? Answer yes, epik probably isnt for you. That might go for any job in Korea.

Are you obsessively paranoid about being taken advantage of? Be wary of this -- a symptom of reading Dave's forum over-religiously. Extra effort freely offered is often amply rewarded in unexpected ways.

Can you get along in a bureaucracy? That means sometimes having to agree with something you dont like. A fair few epikers have never held a real job before & havent yet realized you cant tell a boss what to do. Nor can you jump rank. But most legitimate grievances can be addressed through appropriate channels.

Are you likable? I mean, can you get along amicably with all sorts of people? Your workmates will esteem sociability, be uncomfortable with standoffishness, & detest abrasiveness.

Which motivates you more: a) doing your best to teach well, or b) doing the least possible work for maximum money? The job is work, & the response you'll get from students, colleagues, & administrators will be exactly contingent on the quality of your effort.

Are you expecting efficiency, transparency, logic, just because epik is a govt program? Well, dont. Its often a clumsy, kneejerk behemoth at the macro level (welcome to Korea) but your local situation will be largely what you make of it. Your people skills & cultural sensitivity.

I've advised a lot of prospective epik teachers since I've been in the program & I always caution them not to expect a bed of roses. Truth be told though, its working fine for me & my situation continues to improve. I dont put it down to blind luck. To those above that seem so profoundly critical of epik, a simple question: why do you stick with it?