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Gollum
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Japan
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 Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 7:50 pm Post subject: When you lose respect for your school and Korea |
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How do you handle it when you loose respect for your school, your boss, and Korea in general? I'm thinking it's nearing time for me to go home. I just feel like schools in this country... regardless of whether they are hagwons, private, or public, are mixed up beyond belief.
Our principal is a nutty control-freak. Her husband, the chairman, seems to do nothing but take photos of wildlife all day. They fired or didn't rehire 5 of last years 6 recently-hired Korean English teachers (some of them were very good) because they didn't want to increase their pay and wanted them to work harder. Now they're having a big meeting tonight to chew on the new English teachers (all fresh out of college) for not doing well enough. GET A FREAKIN' CLUE! Why did you fire your good teachers and keep the old ajosshis who can't even speak English???
Last year there was a big rally against the government changing the rules against nepotism and the horrendous ownership control in the private school system. Our school told our teachers they MUST attend the rally against the change. So the teachers attended for fear of their jobs, despite nearly all of them being against the issue. One guy didn't, and he wasn't rehired. So much for ever respecting a rally in Korea.
They made a huge deal last year about our new Chinese program, and received special funding for it. They printed brochures and advertised. They hired a temporary woman from China, and printed her photo all over the brochure, but basically slapped her in the face and refused to pay her much of anything when they signed the main contract for this year, so she left (that's what I heard).
They never inform us of anything until the last minute, or until after it happens (foreigners). As someone else mentioned, it's a power trip to do so.
They had a meeting chewing on teachers for throwing away too much food at lunch time (we have fish 4 out of 5 days a week). Why not figure out that the lunches suck and change them? That would be bad from an administration standpoint... it's cheaper to serve cheap fish and reheat it several days in a row (yes, they do this!)
The students are expected to be placed in a level based on their pride, not their ability. The books we use are supposed to be useful to all students in the entire grade, regardless of their level. Our 1st grade students are more advanced than 2nd, but to have them study the same book will hurt the pride of the 2nd graders. So the 1st graders complain that the book is too easy, and that's our fault. So I supplement. I could go on and on.
I liked my school, but after we were barked at and cut down before being rehired, I lost any respect for my superiors here. Zero people skills. My job is now not fun, thanks to them. |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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I am sure many share your gripe and venting...koreans sure seem to make a mess of such great things most of the time.
Logic or reasoning of the korean mind? That is the 8th wonder of the world. A mystery. That is even a mystery amoung koreans!!
Why can't hakwon owners realize that they would get more with honey than lemon?!?!?!
Treat the staff with respect, treat them as you would want to be treated! If you treat the staff badly...then you also want the staff and others to treat you badly!
Wake up hakwon owners. Stop being idiots. What goes around...comes around.
You have a business because of the teachers! You make money for only one reason...because of the teachers! No teachers...no students. A good teacher can make or break your business. Realize that.
Get rid of the bad teachers...fire the KT's who can't speak English. And I mean speak GOOD English! Not this kongolish B.S.
Same with a bad FT.
But..you need to pay decent wages. What..you think teachers are stupid? They can figure out your income! 150 students equals 15 million Won a month. 150 students equals 1 FT and 2/3 Kt's. Bus drivers, rent, lights, housing, etc...it's not hard to figure out the money and yet you'd rather fire the good teachers instead of giving them a pay raise! And keep the bad ones!
Hakwon owners are awful excuses for....being called a human.
The best successful hakwons I have seen...and I have seen many...treat the staff fair, pay decent wages, don't cheat on pay, housing is decent and enrollment is up!! I know of 10 hakwons where enrollment is over 400 students and each area has a few other hakwons whose enrollment is not even 150!
Having teachers teach 6/7 50 minute classes a day just so YOU can make money is NOT smart business or using the teachers wisely.
Think smarter hakwon owners...not stupid.
Spread the money around and you'll get better results from your staff which will make you more money. |
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agraham
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Daegu, Korea
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| .fire the KT's who can't speak English |
I don't agree.
The fact is getting good grades on tests is what hogwoning is all about.
There are plenty of K teachers who don't speak well, but know grammar better than your typical native B.Eng and could ace a TOEFL.
If they're teaching the grammar classes, and you're teaching the conversation classes, what's the problem? |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| agraham wrote: |
| Quote: |
| .fire the KT's who can't speak English |
I don't agree.
The fact is getting good grades on tests is what hogwoning is all about.
There are plenty of K teachers who don't speak well, but know grammar better than your typical native B.Eng and could ace a TOEFL.
If they're teaching the grammar classes, and you're teaching the conversation classes, what's the problem? |
What's the problem?
If someone has been in korea long enough...they don't have to ask...what's the problem. One already knows.
Very very few KT's have a decent command of English grammar. Let alone speaking.
KT's teach the same mistakes they make to their students. Most KT's have awful pronunciation. Not complaining...just the facts. |
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sadsac
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Gwangwang
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:37 am Post subject: |
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Getting good grades on tests is not even relevant any more. I was chatting with the teacher that took over my position at my previous hagwon and they are no longer permitted to show the students their test results. It causes to many problems, so says the boss. Why waste time testing them then?  |
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agraham
Joined: 19 Aug 2004
Location: Daegu, Korea
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| No I mean standardized tests. Not hogwon tests. |
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Gollum
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:27 am Post subject: |
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So who cares about English? Just as long as they learn to pass a test... hahahaha... you think like a Korean!
Well, the joke's on you, son. The TOEFL is changing to include a rough speaking test, and the TOEIC will soon follow suit.
Top Korean companies are already beginning to require English speaking tests to get the job.
Test scores aren't important like they once were. Those days are on their way out -- fast.
And hopefully so will a lot of Korean teachers who can't have a conversation in English, yet teach it. |
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matthewwoodford
Joined: 01 Oct 2003
Location: Location, location, location.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| agraham wrote: |
| Quote: |
| .fire the KT's who can't speak English |
I don't agree.
The fact is getting good grades on tests is what hogwoning is all about.
There are plenty of K teachers who don't speak well, but know grammar better than your typical native B.Eng and could ace a TOEFL.
If they're teaching the grammar classes, and you're teaching the conversation classes, what's the problem? |
What's the problem?
If someone has been in korea long enough...they don't have to ask...what's the problem. One already knows.
Very very few KT's have a decent command of English grammar. Let alone speaking.
KT's teach the same mistakes they make to their students. Most KT's have awful pronunciation. Not complaining...just the facts. |
That is true in general. However, it isn't safe to assume that a teacher with poor speaking skills isn't confident in reading, writing, and grammar. After all, just because native speakers are speaking virtuosos doesn't mean they know grammar, let alone how to teach it. |
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Gollum
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| matthewwoodford wrote: |
| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
| agraham wrote: |
| Quote: |
| .fire the KT's who can't speak English |
I don't agree.
The fact is getting good grades on tests is what hogwoning is all about.
There are plenty of K teachers who don't speak well, but know grammar better than your typical native B.Eng and could ace a TOEFL.
If they're teaching the grammar classes, and you're teaching the conversation classes, what's the problem? |
What's the problem?
If someone has been in korea long enough...they don't have to ask...what's the problem. One already knows.
Very very few KT's have a decent command of English grammar. Let alone speaking.
KT's teach the same mistakes they make to their students. Most KT's have awful pronunciation. Not complaining...just the facts. |
That is true in general. However, it isn't safe to assume that a teacher with poor speaking skills isn't confident in reading, writing, and grammar. After all, just because native speakers are speaking virtuosos doesn't mean they know grammar, let alone how to teach it. |
You're missing the point.
Memorizing grammar is why Koreans don't know how to speak English after many, many years of study under Korean teachers who also cannot speak. |
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hellofaniceguy
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:36 am Post subject: |
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Before ANY of you learned to read or write in your native language...that's 100% of you....you first learned to speak. The reading/writing part comes easy when one knows the language, idioms, etc.
The emphasis in the classroom should be on speaking, phonics, idioms, etc. Not on grammar.
Why is it that korea is one of the lowest English speaking countries in Asia and yet spends the highest amount of money on learning the language?!?!? Hakwon owners are doing it backwards and half assed. Why? They only want money!
If the students are speaking English��.no need for hakwons.
Just because a person was born in an English speaking country does not mean they are qualified to teach English either. Many can��t read or write very well��just look at some of the letters posted on this site!!
I have had korean professors at the university where I am at who have MA��s and PhD��s IN ENGLISH asking me and the other FT��s what this means, is this OK to use, etc.
Even the high scoring KT��s who ace TOEFL��s are making many grammar mistakes.
No one is perfect and I am far from it. But��KT��s should not be teaching a language just because they aced the test TOEFL! At the very least, they should have lived in an English speaking country for a few years! Not a few months or a few vacations. But years. They need to know the idioms, slang, etc. to teach the language correctly.
I have met a few KT��s who do a great job at teaching. And teach better than me I might add. But 90% should not be teaching.
Many of these students will move on to important businesses and top government jobs and need to learn the language correctly! Grammar skills?! They have at the least, six years of grammar skills! 3 years middle school and 3 years HS! Plus years of hakwons! Now, English is being taught in the primary schools. Come on! That��s over 6 years of English! They should be talking like natives! Don��t give me that bull about ��they have no one to practice speaking with!�� They have each other!
The public schools teach grammar��so��why the need for the hakwon to do the same? Money!
If all these hakwons would let the teachers do what they hired them to do��and that is teach��students would be learning! Screw the grammar teaching skills. They will learn that far more better once they get the speaking skills down.
I still say��fire most of the KT��s��not all��but those who can��t hold a decent conversation in English.
Hakwon owners��you all suck big time. 95% at least. Concentrate on doing a great job instead. Pay decent wages. Stop screwing over each other and the teachers who are making you your money. Less teaching hours/classes equals QUALITY teaching! Don��t you get it? Or are you that thick headed? Were you born that way or is it just natural?
Have great material, supplies, CONSTRUCTIVE meetings, etc. Put the shoe on the other foot��if you went to another country to teach korean and got treated like the way you treat the FT��s��you��d be angry also!
But...most of the blame lies with the FT's for letting the hakwon owners use them and screw them over! And yet more still sign the same old contracts!
Last edited by hellofaniceguy on Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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Hanson
Joined: 20 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| An official in the International Cooperation Division of Seoul City admitted, ��The same complaints regarding visas, transportation, education, and environment are raised every year without being solved, due to the lack of cooperation from government agencies involved and their passive attitudes.�� |
Surprise, surprise! |
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camelina
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Location: wishing i was there
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| How do you handle it when you loose respect for your school |
How do you loosen respect? 
Shouldn't they lose respect for you after that?
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| agraham wrote: |
| Quote: |
| .fire the KT's who can't speak English |
I don't agree.
The fact is getting good grades on tests is what hogwoning is all about.
There are plenty of K teachers who don't speak well, but know grammar better than your typical native B.Eng and could ace a TOEFL.
If they're teaching the grammar classes, and you're teaching the conversation classes, what's the problem? |
If they study all this grammar why can't they come up with a grammatical sentence when speaking? Ideally I think grammar should be co-taught.
As for Gollum's original post, he's voicing the opinion of almost all of us, I think. Korea will always have a huge need for foreigners because it hates to depend on us to do things the right way - how ironic is that? |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| hellofaniceguy wrote: |
Before ANY of you learned to read or write in your native language...that's 100% of you....you first learned to speak. The reading/writing part comes easy when one knows the language, idioms, etc.
The emphasis in the classroom should be on speaking, phonics, idioms, etc. Not on grammar. |
To speak the language with any degree of fluency one needs to know how to use verbs in different tenses, and where to place them relative to other nouns. A phrase like 'The reading/writing part comes easy' versus 'The reading/writing part comes easily' would make little difference in terms of understanding what the person is saying. But most Koreans' grammatical mistakes make conversation very difficult. It might be possible to understand what 'I home is my to go' is supposed to mean, but such a level of speaking won't make for much conversation.
Koreans also have to get it through their heads that learning English is hard work, and many children simply don't like having yet more work to do. |
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