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Warning to western women and to Koreans that Seoul is UNSAFE
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beebee



Joined: 03 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:06 am    Post subject: Warning to western women and to Koreans that Seoul is UNSAFE Reply with quote

Don't worry about anti-americanism - it is nothing compared to the dangers of being mistaken for a Russian prostitute/ entertainer.

it is no longer a curious annoyance in Seoul - I want to post a warning as many female teachers have noted an enormous escalation with problems being identified and more recently approached and physiacally hassled for being Russian prostitutes in many areas like Dondaemun, Hongadae and even Jong -no in the last 3 months.

I post this warning as I know one female teacher friend who was raped in an elevator at 12.00 at night and another female teacher friend who was forced to masturbate a guy in broad daylight and no-one helped her. I was also dragged by a guy who tried to physically attack me at 10.15 pm on a week night after work walking to my apartment and no-one in a nearby restaurant helped me as he yelled in Korean at them as if he knew me.

The police have advised not to take the same route at the same time home or you could be noticed by a " weirdo" and to cary some kind of purse spray. Just common sense but Seoul is far MORE dangerous to foreign women than many other cities b/c of this inceasing association of white female=Russian prostitute plus you LOOK DIFFERENT so attract attention.

In the last week I have been pyhsically grabbed by 4 different men in different incidents. One was in front of my foreign and Korean friends in Hongdae outside Bar 66 last Fri night on club night. There were older men just standing there watching the foreigner show.

During the week my female friend and I were attacked by "piccys" the nightclub touts grabbing us and asking us if we wanted Korea " c....". in Jong no - 2 ga.

Last Saturday night i was hassled by guy sat night at Dongdaemun station waiting 2 minutes. When my male foreign friend arrived and we walked to a Freya cinema i was grabbed outside the lift in front of a group of Koreans and he asked my male friend how much a Russian woman cost in English. We wanted to hit him, but thought it was inappropriate and decided to scream abuse at him. So being with male doesn't always help either - but u r safer.

Itaewon is safer for women as there are many foreign men that understand your situation if you are hassled. Be careful in Hongdae - even my students have said that there have been foreign women attacked by taxi drivers in Hongdae. I was hassled by drunk Korean YOUNG guys coming out of a club too. Make sure you always catch cabs with friends - stay at each others houses. Don't EVER leave Hongdae by yourself.

Even following all these precautions please learn some KOrean for " BAD MAN _ I DON"T KNOW HIM" and lots of English screaming and hitting him with your handbag. This has been suggested by the lovely Koreans I teach. The problem with two of my friends was when they started yelling the men made out that they knew them. They DID NOT !!!!!!!! So maybe that is why no-one helped them.

Even a taxi ride from work to home isn't the answer as tonight the taxi driver grabbed my hand trying to suggest coffee - and mentioning Russian saram.

Just be very aware of your surroundings - maybe it will help you and don't naively chat to men when you first come to Korea thinking they are friendly. Men do not approach women they don't know in this culture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Pyongshin Sangja



Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will second this. I have tried to post details about what I have seen in Seoul on this board in the past but they were always censored by the mods. Seoul can be a terrible place for women.
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kimcheeking
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pyongshin Sangja wrote:
I will second this. I have tried to post details about what I have seen in Seoul on this board in the past but they were always censored by the mods. Seoul can be a terrible place for women.


I don't recall censoring anything along this lines. While I do consider this a little alarmist - I would leave any editing for the female moderators.
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Cedar



Joined: 11 Mar 2003
Location: In front of my computer, again.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


A few tips:

Walk confidently, briskly and like you have an appointment somewhere. The more you seem to be indrawn or moseying the more likely you are to trigger a "potential victim" instinct in a bad man. Try not to seem worried and frantic, turning around all the time scanning your immediate area for threats. If you seem worried.... again, you set yourself up for more harassment. Get some self-defense training. Not cause it helps so much in a real situation, as because it gives you a mental crutch of "I know what to do." Korea is a great place to learn self-defense. Hapkido and boxing are the best options because knowing how to punch from boxing and how to use pressure points and hold breaks from hapkido is very useful when really fighting. The reality is, people don't fight much with their feet except in martial arts movies. The first step after spoken harassment will be when a guy grabs you. If things escalate- people fight with their hands.

As mentioned already, don't establish an incredibly predictable schedule, especially late night. Though right in front of the place you are leaving and arriving you will have no option, vary the time a bit, wait to walk with a someone sometimes, and try to use a different route. Don't make it easy for someone to plan an attack on you.

If you are in front of a large group of people, they may not help you, but they ARE watching. Scream and sit down (harder to be dragged, but your clothes get it worse with this option). Hit him with something(handbag, umbrella), or if you are confident enough, sock him. If a stranger attacks you, you are justified in the law to use whatever means you have to get him off you. Don't worry about what the cops are going to say, unless he's an aquaintance of yours. Make it obvious that you are being attacked to the people who are watching. Do learn Korean for "help" "police" "rape" "go away" "pervert" and "bad man". And I mean, the impolite versions. If the audience understands that you don't know him, it's pretty likely they may help you if you don't seem to be able to get rid of him on your own. Koreans don't usually help in cases of domestic abuse, but attacks on strangers are different- they will help you. They have sisters, mothers and daughters themselves.

Now, you may hate me for saying this: dress like a good Korean girl. That means no tank tops, no spagetti strap dresses. Koreans find the tight skirt that goes all the way to your ankles but slits up the side or back MUCH sexier than miniskirts. The more your clothes look like those of an entertainment industry woman, the more you are going to attract the kind of attention you don't want. If it's a Friday night out, and you want to look hot, stick with your friends.

Sit in the back seat of the taxi at night. If the taxi driver seems about to get out and get in with you, get out and run. Otherwise there isn't much he can do besides talk, if you are in back. If his words are abusive, get out, scream at him and throw less than full fare at him. He may get the idea that he's not helping his business any.

Carry a cell phone and know that the police is 112 not 119, which is for the ambulance, fires and such. The cell phone sends a location signal, and if you dial 112 you will get connected to the closest police station, don't worry. Describe the location to the police. Use the names of businesses if you don't know the intersection.

Mentally designate a bilingual friend as the person who will help you if you need translation at 4 a.m. in some really bad situation. If the person you'd feel most comfortable calling in this situation is someone you don't know well, pay them back later with really nice presents (think gift certificate to the department store).

Don't get so drunk that you lose your common sense, unless there is someone who knows it's their responsibility to get you home safe.

Try following the new in-line skate trend and use skates to commute to work, you'll be harder to catch up to. Keep your work shoes at work, and a change of clothes in your backpack.
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Hank Scorpio



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another tip for women; don't come to Korea if you're a female. This is one society that it sucks to be a woman in.
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The Lemon



Joined: 11 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have tried to post details about what I have seen in Seoul on this board in the past but they were always censored by the mods.

I haven't seen this either. I, too, defer to the female mods, who may have a better sense of the content of this thread. Good advice (as usual) from Cedar - thanks.
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desultude



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also advise dressing conservatively and professionally (NOT as in "the oldest profession!). I have met a number of young western women teaching abroad who have insisted on dressing as they please. Mostly this was in Mexico. Then they would get really upset because the men were all hitting on them. It is certainly your right to dress pretty much as you please. But you then have to deal with the consequences. A woman who is raped while wearing a seductive outfit is not to blame for the rape, the rapist is. But she still is raped, no matter who's fault it is.

I'm so sorry to hear about the problems in Seoul. I would never advise women to not go anyplace in the world that they want to go. But women must be wiser and more careful than men in most countries (including the United States.) Know the local risks and take appropriate precautions.

This is one of the few circumstances when I really appreciate being an older woman.
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dogbert



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kimcheeking wrote:
Pyongshin Sangja wrote:
I will second this. I have tried to post details about what I have seen in Seoul on this board in the past but they were always censored by the mods. Seoul can be a terrible place for women.


I don't recall censoring anything along this lines. While I do consider this a little alarmist - I would leave any editing for the female moderators.


There are female moderators?
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Holyjoe



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Away for a cuppa

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dogbert wrote:
There are female moderators?


Well, as they said in the Simpsons when Lisa wanted to go to Military school... "But that seems to be the way the wind is blowing these days. After all, we have female singers, female motorists... Welcome aboard."

Wink
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Alias



Joined: 24 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<I post this warning as I know one female teacher friend who was raped in an elevator at 12.00 at night and another female teacher friend who was forced to *beep* a guy in broad daylight and no-one helped her. >


Have the police done anything? Shocked
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kimcheeking
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dogbert wrote:
There are female moderators?


ESL4KIDS and HALFPINT.
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dogbert



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kimcheeking wrote:
dogbert wrote:
There are female moderators?


ESL4KIDS and HALFPINT.


Thank you.
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Hotel Cheonan



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: Gwangju

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently this is not just a Seoul problem. I've had female friends harassed in Cheonan as well. What's surprising is that they're not even remotely Russian looking. Korean men seem to think that any foreign woman is willing to sleep with them.
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William Beckerson
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, I'd hate to be a big poop about this, but isnt there rape in every country?
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kricket



Joined: 25 Feb 2003
Location: The Land of Kimchi and OB Beer

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Run Forrest Run wrote:
well, I'd hate to be a big poop about this, but isnt there rape in every country?


No, apparently Western men NEVER rape or abuse women of any race...White men are the moral standard around the world...

ALL Korean men are deviant perverts looking for opportunities to rape Western women...

Thank God he sent Western men to earth...How else would the deviant Korean men be "educated" and the poor abused Korean women "liberated"??
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