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Thing are getting ugly in China (shocking pics included)
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khyber



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gmat:
the point rap. raised was about nationalistic tendencies in Asian countries. I wasn't discussing the japanese car incident specifically; just a general guess.

Or do you think that the Cambodians were taught racial hatred of Thais?
no, at most just sensitive about their royal family.

It's conjecture and meaningless....

Quote:
Well that's the dumbest thing I've read in a long time.

the DUMBEST?
i dunno.
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Rock



Joined: 25 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to speak up on this topic, but has anyone here ever read the novel by Michael Crighton(?) called 'Rising Sun?'

Well, there's a lot of protesting to be done in light of Japan's lack of restraint/immoral actions, both past and present. But twist this around and think of it in terms of China, too.

I'd be careful of China, because they can be even worse. For these reasons I don't sympathize with them. In regards to Korea, these protests may even hurt their economy more, and lead to further North Korean antagonism with the U.S.

I heard one Korea lady tell me, "China said to America that 'they'd better not interfere with Taiwan.' Is this because America is bound by an agreement with Taiwan to defend it if China attacks, or is this because she thinks America wants to interfere?
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Adam J



Joined: 11 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taiwan vs. Normandy:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/taiwan-d-day.htm

CNN coverage:

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/china.taiwan/
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Cthulhu



Joined: 02 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At one time foreign cars in Korea suffered the same thing--during the so-called IMF crisis I believe. Mostly vandalism in that case. I also remember people making a big show of destroying a Lada in Toronto as a public spectacle during the 80's. Of course, neither of these cases involved the occupant of the car being in it when it happened, which makes this a little more serious.

But in general I think every nation does it for one reason or another--as others have said, that's nationalism for you. And cars are such an easy target.
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toomuchtime



Joined: 11 May 2003
Location: the only country with four distinct seasons

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cthulhu wrote:
I also remember people making a big show of destroying a Lada in Toronto as a public spectacle during the 80's.


The owner probably paid them to do it.
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Cthulhu



Joined: 02 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toomuchtime wrote:

Quote:
The owner probably paid them to do it.


Undoubtedly. Smile
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mindmetoo



Joined: 02 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konundrum wrote:
Wasn't there news in the late 70's and 80's when all the domestic car plants were being shut down in Michigan that foreign cars in Detroit and other midwestern towns were being vandalized because they were foreign?

I'm not comparing...just asking...


That's exactly what I was thinking. I spent my teenhood in Windsor in the early '80s when Japanese sentiment was running really high. My friend's dad drove a Toyota and one day he found all the tires missing from his car. And then some serious loser on my street was arrested for assaulting an Asian guy on the bus. He apparently attacked him shouting "it's people like you that caused all this unemployment". And then of course everyone in Windsor drove around with a "Unemployment Made in Japan" bumper sticker.

Unemployment was actually made in Detroit, when the auto companies wrongly assumed Americans would always buy American cars because there was no serious competition and they never had to innovate...

And then there was the famous case of a Chinese guy in Detroit, Vincent Chin, who was beaten to death the night before his wedding. He was beaten to death by two unemployed auto workers with a baseball bat and a grudge against the Japanese...
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Summer Wine



Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sometimes wonder about what will happen in the future. If Chinese people have this attitude now when they are not top of the heap. How will they behave when they reach there.

The argument about isolationist tendancies of the past determining the percentage of aggressive actions in the future has already been disproved by the US. Saw some photo's of what chinese authorities do to thier own people, sure don't want them to do it to me or mine.
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning. It is our pleasure to welcome all of you flying with us today to the Chinese Century.

As we expect a fair degree of turbulence ahead, the Guru asks that all passengers please remain seated with their seatbelts fastened for the remainder of our flight.

Now please sit back, enjoy the in-flight entertainment, and we'll do our best to ensure that when the end comes, it'll be fast and painless.

Flight attendants, please prepare for our descent into Hell.
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billybrobby



Joined: 09 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I remember back in 1989 or so watching a guy smash up a Toyota with a baseball bat on the news. As a kid I thought it was awesome, but then later thinking back it was a really ugly scene.

Ah, 1989, we thought the Japanese would rule the world, didn't we?

Little did we know they'd be spending the next decade mired in recession. Now its China's turn to be the big bad Asian economic boogie-man. Of course China in 2005 and Japan in 1980 are 2 entirely different things, but something tells me the next century won't belong to the China.

Maybe its my typical American smugness, but I just think the Chinese government is too stupid and slow to bring their economy to the top. Lord, I hope so anyways. At least the Japanese were nominally democratic. If those godless commies rule the world, I'm moving to Mars. There's my little bit of ugly nationalism.
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mithridates



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the difference though is that China only has to bring its individual GDP up to one quarter that of the US to equal it. Japan had way too few people to compete with the States.
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

billybrobby wrote:
Yeah, I remember back in 1989 or so watching a guy smash up a Toyota with a baseball bat on the news. As a kid I thought it was awesome, but then later thinking back it was a really ugly scene.

Ah, 1989, we thought the Japanese would rule the world, didn't we?

Little did we know they'd be spending the next decade mired in recession. Now its China's turn to be the big bad Asian economic boogie-man. Of course China in 2005 and Japan in 1980 are 2 entirely different things, but something tells me the next century won't belong to the China.

Maybe its my typical American smugness, but I just think the Chinese government is too stupid and slow to bring their economy to the top. Lord, I hope so anyways. At least the Japanese were nominally democratic. If those godless commies rule the world, I'm moving to Mars. There's my little bit of ugly nationalism.


I hear what you're saying, Billy. I'm old enough to have parents who used to fret about the great Soviet threat -- oh, the Sputnik missions (way before my time, but they'd bring it up), Cuban missile crisis, how the Russians were turning out thousands upon thousands of scientists, engineers and physicists to "our side's" The Beatles, etc. The perceived threat there was all military and political. Western economies were never really imperilled, but that didn't seem to matter.

Then came Japan. They were my generation's bogeyman. Going to bury us all economically with their (once) cheap cameras and hi-fi equipment. And cars, of course. They made a hell of a run, too. Had to've done something right to be the world's second largest economy. And by gawd, they did it all without spending billions on English lessons! (hint hint hint hint hint hint hint, Korea)

The difference with China is that it's all over the map, literally and figuratively. Regional, territorial, military, economic, and resource hegemony are seen to be at stake. The only thing missing is the political element, since nobody's looking to China for lessons of political philosophy to be learnt, translated and applied at home (except for Peru's goofy Shining Pathers, and they're decades out of time anyway).

The "godless" Chi-Coms aren't a threat -- Han Chinese nationalism, along with economic dislocation and environmental devastation of truly tectonic proportions, however, very much are, IMHO.
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trigger123



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Location: TALKING TO STRANGERS, IN A BETTER PLACE

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gmat wrote:
Quote:
I wonder if this is a side effect of capitalism.


Well that's the dumbest thing I've read in a long time.

I assure you that the brainwashed Chinese drones in the anti-Japanese protests were not acting with anything but pure racial hatred that has been taught in China with re-newed vigour since 1989. Classic misdirection and victimization.


not neccessarily. i guess you're saying that if chinese citizens do protest its because their government has sanctioned the protest and is manipulating them, if they don't then their protests have been subdued. so either way Central party is making a case?
well i agree to some extent. you have to take a wider view on this. china is opposing japan's application to join the permanent security council of the UN. what better way to stop them than to remind the world of japan's past.
of course, both sides, (hey and korea too), are guilty of manipulating history to fit their ends, but what country doesn't do this? i'd be interested to see what factual inaccuracies are really contained within these texts.
and iguy? please?!
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



When a government is prepared to send in the military to crush much larger though peaceful demonstrations like the one in Tiananmen Square, yet won't intercede when smaller and extremely violent gangs of protestors vandalise, destroy and threaten foreign property and lives until after the damage is done (or even offer an apology & a promise not to let it happen again).... what are we to call such a government? "Inept" or "incapable" they're certainly not. I'd think "thuggish" and whatever you might get when you combine the terms "nationalist" und "sozialist" would be closer to the mark.
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plato's republic



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Ancient Greece

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

england vs. germany Euro 96. semi-final, england lost on penalties, fans went on the rampage.
Embarassed
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