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Barking Mad Lord Snapcase
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
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 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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You know, the ones who are preaching against "getting involved" are probably the same ones who preach about "experiencing the culture at all costs". If the sentiment is anti-Western, then it's OK by them.
Or perhaps there is a more solid moral and logical core to their arguments ....?
Last edited by Barking Mad Lord Snapcase on Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Koreabound2004
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| khyber wrote: |
howsabout some guy was getting treated like *beep* *beep*. Couldn't THAT be enough reason to step in?
I was on public transit last year....taking the bus from my small city into busan. A guy got on the bus at the last stop before we got on the expressway. Him and the driver started arguing: I also couldn't tell what it was about but the rider didn't put money in. So i would assume it was about that. The driver took off while he and the rider were screaming at each other. Once we'd been on the highway for about 5 mins, cruising at around 90km, it had been calm for about 10 seconds and the rider REACHED around and started to choke the *beep* bus driver. And this guy wasn't even drunk. So he's choking the bus driver. Now the bus is full. We swerve across a lane and bounce off the guard rail that seperates the two directions of traffic. I grab the woman and child beside me. A group of 5 or 6 middle school girls are screaming and freakin out. Everyone on the bus is really scared but the driver manages to slow down and get us under control (pretty amazing really).
Than the *beep* loser has the GALL to yell at the bus driver MORE!!! An older man FINALLY puts his hand on the guys shoulder to calm him down and move him away. It doesn't matter.
Now if someone had stepped in earlier, the situation could have been averted. But we both know that Koreans are not as outgoing with strangers as people back home. If Koreans can feel uncomfortable helping people who are kind, how well do you think they're gonna do with someone who is yelling and screaming. Claiming that a bunch of koreans were sitting watching don't mean *beep*. of COURSE they were, it's not a part of what they know to confront a situation like that.
AFter driving another few minutes the route happenned to go past a police station. we let him off there. No telling what kind of payment he had to make to escape justice there. 
This is a thing i'm just starting to get into...but there has to be physical violence for me to step in and i'll tell you, even just watching the verbal fights i've seen (few though they have been) 9x outta 10 it is someone with an obvious advantage (height, age, strength, gender) who is the abuser. Do you think that is a coincidence almost EVERY SINGLE time?
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| Why do so many fricken snot nosed english teachers speak of "stepping in" all the time as if their opinion even matters in situations like these? |
Why do so many cold hearted bastards don't even try to *beep* help. You don't need much people. What would it take? Just try to calm the situation down. Maybe it'd take effort. IT's not like you have to go up to the guy and beat the crap outta him. Just try and defuse the situation as best you can.
It's *beep* when foreigners complain about how *beep* up korea is and then don't even make an effort to help people when they're having problems. makes them look pretty shallow.
Sure it may not be your problem.
But really, that could be said about every single big problem in the world. Why not try to take 3 mins outta your all too important time to try and help someone who is having a hard go. say like, a bum. Just help the guy off, and walk away with him.
What're you trying to win a popularity contest with tough drunk ajoshis? Are you scared of them? You don't understand what they're saying. just help em...or at least offer. show them you care.
you wanna make the world better, make a *beep* effort. You wanna keep living in a repressive, abusive, environment, let it continue. Don't do a thing about it. And then after you watch it all unfold, shake your head and be self righteous about it and come here and post about how *beep* up korea is. Cause that way, you can help solve the problem! |
I don't really think that if such a thing happened back home, anything different would have come out of it. When I studied psych back in the day, there was something we learned about called the "bystander effect."
It basically suggests that the more people that are around in the event of an emergency or hostile situation, the less likely someone will step in and intervene or the longer it will take for someone to help....possibly b/c they might get hurt, but also mainly due to the fact that the others will assume that someone else will jump in first...and so everyone just holds back and waits. It's been my experience that this is pretty much true in a lot of cases.
If someone is getting hurt, of course intervention would be helpful....I know if I was about to get beaten or raped....or was being harrassed, I would want someone to step in and HELP ME OUT!!!!!
Just like the Rodney King thing....he got beat up, and someone filmed. I think he would have fared better if the person filming tried to help him out. But then again, he probably assumed someone else would come to the rescue and did nothing.
BUT, if I don't know all the details...and I can't understand what is going on....I think staying out of it would be best. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Barking Mad Lord Snapcase wrote: |
You know, the ones who are preaching against "getting involved" are probably the same ones who preach about "experiencing the culture at all costs". If the sentiment is anti-Western, then it's OK by them.
Or perhaps there is a more solid moral and logical core to their arguments ....? |
Putputputputrollputputput....
Like having absolutely no idea what's going on isn't enough?
Last edited by Demophobe on Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Rodney King? Someone should have come to the rescue of the cops! |
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squat toilet
Joined: 08 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Barking Mad Lord Snapcase wrote: |
| You know, the ones who are preaching against "getting involved" are probably the same ones who preach about "experiencing the culture at all costs". If the sentiment is anti-Western, then it's OK by them. |
Yah you got me pegged Freud. Or maybe its a case of understanding how volatile these situations can be...i'll ask again, if other Koreans have no qualms with what is happening, why the hell should you care, especially when you have no clue what is being said? This logic baffles me.
If someone directly f's with me, a friend or loved one, I cripple their ass. If two people whom i dont know, have never met, and cannot understand are invloved in some conflict with onlookers watching and laughing, IT IS NOT MY PLACE TO STEP IN. It's a no win situation.
| khyber wrote: |
| do you REALLY think i give a *beep* what all the other koreans are thinking? |
Very altruistic of you Ghandi
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| And besides, if the worst thing they are going to think is "why doesn't white boy mind his own business?" i can live with that |
Yes, thats the absolute worst thing that could happen. Bang on.
Of course its unfathomable that the aggressor could suddenly turn on you forcing you to defend yourself and then when the police arrive those 25 witnesses whom you don't give a *beep* about will testify that YOU started the fight. You then get charged with assault, thrown in the clink, slapped with a substantial fine and deported while you cry about "altruism" and "equality." You then jump on Dave's and cry about how unfair life is, the whole time re-adjusting the OB tampon rammed inside your brown eye to deal with the gaping anal fissures left from the tri-daily gang rape sessions you received while in prison.
But at least you momentarily helped out that bum right? |
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trevorcollins
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:50 pm Post subject: Re: Is bullying an "accepted" part of confucian so |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
After reading about the hot spoon incident, I thought I would relate something I witnessed in Busan last weekend.
I was headed to Young Kwang book store in Seomyeon. On the way,there is a small kind of park (not a park really but a small area with a few trees and some benches)
I decided to buy some lunch and sit quietly by myself.
A few feet away at the next bench were 3 Koreans. 2 were well above retirement age, one was in his 40's.
One guy looked like a street bum, he was dressed in filthy clothes and looked like he needed a shave and perhaps a shower. He had a cart with puppies in a cage. I think there were about 5 or 6 dogs in the cage.
I am not sure exactly what was going on, as my Korean is not that great, but I think it had something to do with the dogs in the cage.
Anyway, what happened next was that one of the older Koeans walked up to the bum guy and started hassling him about the dogs. He seemed to be threatening to let them all go or something, but I'm not sure. Then they started arguing, pushing, shouting.
The weird part was that eventhough I felt sorry for the dogs, I felt even more sorry for the poor old man who had them in the cage. The othe guy was well dressed, and seemed pretty well off....... but I could tell he was drunker than a skunk.
After a few minutes of hassling this old bum, finally the bum gets up and buys some soju and offers everyone a drink .... even me. Then the well dressed guy got even angrier, because the bum hadn't bought the right brand of alcohol. He called the bum a few names, jerked one of the bottles of soju out of his hands and went back to the store and exchanged it for whatever kind he wanted. Then he returned and handed the bottle to the 40 year old guy and proceeded to yell, push, slap, and hit the bum.
He pushed him to the ground several times, slapped him across the head and all the while hurled insults at him.
I wanted to step in, but I really didn't understand what was going on, so I thought it best to just stay out of it. What I found strange was that all around Koreans were standing around laughing, nobody would lift a finger.
I finally just walked away in disgust.
I don't care what the bum did, he really didn't deserve that kind of treatment.  |
Maybe it was like Bumfights 3 or some crap.
They should do it international or something.
Take some homeless San Francisco Vietnam vet mooching coke cups from McDonalds and put him up against some kimchi puke eating loveable adjoshi bum from Pusan. That'd be fucking sweet. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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re; the puppy dog bum: Koreans assume anyone who is shabbily dressed or poor, must be stupid.
Having wealth is equated to intelligence: those without, or who are shamelessly unhygeinic/poorly dressed are universally treated like dirt. There is little stmpathy for the less fortunate/poverty stricken. They are simply losers. |
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Koreabound2004
Joined: 19 Nov 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
re; the puppy dog bum: Koreans assume anyone who is shabbily dressed or poor, must be stupid.
Having wealth is equated to intelligence: those without, or who are shamelessly unhygeinic/poorly dressed are universally treated like dirt. There is little stmpathy for the less fortunate/poverty stricken. They are simply losers. |
People who equate wealth and intelligence, and poverty and stupidity are STUPID...... |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
re; the puppy dog bum: Koreans assume anyone who is shabbily dressed or poor, must be stupid.
Having wealth is equated to intelligence: those without, or who are shamelessly unhygeinic/poorly dressed are universally treated like dirt. There is little stmpathy for the less fortunate/poverty stricken. They are simply losers. |
Are they not though? I know, in many cases poverty is something imposed from without. However, in many cases, poverty is something one earns. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
re; the puppy dog bum: Koreans assume anyone who is shabbily dressed or poor, must be stupid.
Having wealth is equated to intelligence: those without, or who are shamelessly unhygeinic/poorly dressed are universally treated like dirt. There is little stmpathy for the less fortunate/poverty stricken. They are simply losers. |
Are they not though? I know, in many cases poverty is something imposed from without. However, in many cases, poverty is something one earns. |
Thats true: but to me, poverty is not a crime. The bum in this case seems to have had more generosity and better manners than the well-dressed yet drunken ajosshi who gave him grief.
Still, its all on appearances and money here. The rich are allowed to behave badly.
My own morality is: "Manners maketh man".
Which is more impressive? A poor guy who waits in line patiently, or a rich guy who arrogantly pushes in? |
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Daechidong Waygookin
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Location: No Longer on Dave's. Ive quit.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
re; the puppy dog bum: Koreans assume anyone who is shabbily dressed or poor, must be stupid.
Having wealth is equated to intelligence: those without, or who are shamelessly unhygeinic/poorly dressed are universally treated like dirt. There is little stmpathy for the less fortunate/poverty stricken. They are simply losers. |
Are they not though? I know, in many cases poverty is something imposed from without. However, in many cases, poverty is something one earns. |
Thats true: but to me, poverty is not a crime. The bum in this case seems to have had more generosity and better manners than the well-dressed yet drunken ajosshi who gave him grief.
Still, its all on appearances and money here. The rich are allowed to behave badly.
My own morality is: "Manners maketh man".
Which is more impressive? A poor guy who waits in line patiently, or a rich guy who arrogantly pushes in? |
Poor people dont generlly impress me rapier. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hey SQ. T.
Glad to see that we agree. I did nothing exactly for the reasons you mentioned.
That does not mean I condone what was going on.
If I could have figured out a way to stop it, that wouldn't involve every Korean in the area suddenly turning on me as the evil, nosey, waygukin that I am,  then I would have tried to stop it.
As it was, I could see it was better for me to just walk away.
My original question still stands though:
Is bullying considered OK in Korean society?
I seem to see a lot of these types of incidents, the only times where I have "stepped in" is when they have happened in my classroom and involve my students. Now I know where the little buggers get it from.  |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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To answer the question, hell yeah bullying is acceptable in Korea.
I once saw a group of men drag a woman by her hair out of a restaurant, into the street, smash her face into a concrete wall, take her back into the restuarant, burn her hands on the gas flame in the kitchen and kick her backwards over a table. Was I wrong to intervene? ARe you wimps gonna sit there and watch people being assaulted? Stop playing the race card, stop putting down hagwon teachers as if your public school job makes you somebody, and stop being such spineles cowards. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Daechidong Waygookin wrote: |
| [Poor people dont generlly impress me rapier. |
Next you'll be saying that "disabled people, animals, foreigners and japanese people don't impress me, or any esl teacher without blonde hair who is not American.".
You must really be getting into the Korean mindset these days..Go D.W.! |
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jazblanc77
Joined: 22 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Been there, done that! Got involved in breaking up a VERY bad situation in defense of a woman against two attackers. Found myself taken to the police station with no rights to defend myself, treated like a criminal, threatened to be sued by the thugs. This is not to mention the fact that the REAL criminals were given mine and my wife's information (names, address, workplace, etc.), and were not disuaded from taking our pictures and uttering death threats. This is not to mention that the whole ordeal could have been pinned on me since there were no witnesses to the entire scene.
The cops in Korea are useless, powerless, corrupt pigs who only care about being able to find a quiet place to park their car to get some shut-eye or practicing for their upcoming Starcraft progaming career, UNDISTURBED by the petty nonsense of the petty inhabitants of their jurisdiction. Don't get involved with the police in Korea, they are no better than the mafia. Well, you can get involved if you want, however, be aware that we are not citizens of Korea, we are not considered people according to Korean law. This means you have no means of getting yourself out of a situation when misunderstanding, confucianism, prejudice, lies, and bribes start working against you. |
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