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Rock
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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 Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 6:21 am Post subject: |
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One thing that really freaks me out is the lack of human rights and the inhumane treatment of workers, and people, in China. All these will be tossed aside if China has its debut.
And if you really want to experience this inhumane treatment, go to Taiwan and teach. There's no such thing as standing up for your rights, no reason to hold to your Western ideologies, freedom of thought/expression. The Chinese can be thugs of reason. |
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teachmeenglish
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Well just finished teaching a year in beijing for YBM, and my feeling is that China is scary adn somethign to be scared of. While many of us in Korea have looked at Koreans and wondered how they could believe some things (fan death) despite so much evidence to the contratry, china is a world beyond that. Believes and blindnesses in china are stagerign. Eg having my apartment owner who is a governemnt officail threaten to hire people to disrupt our classes adn have me beat up because I complained and moved out of my apartment due to 100s of cockroaches a week. Or having cars run red lights and almost hit me then yell at me for beign angry.
At least in Beijing, the level of blindness and "mob" thinking is unbelievable. Honestly, it is a country to be afraid of..... very afraid of. |
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teachmeenglish
Joined: 14 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| Would you believe c0ckroaches is deleted!!! by this site??? |
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trevorcollins
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| teachmeenglish wrote: |
| Would you believe c0ckroaches is deleted!!! by this site??? |
Weird, let me try....
cockroaches.
did it work...?
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gmat
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:14 am Post subject: |
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The success of the CCP 'education' is really unbelievable. I teach at a pretty good university here in China. The future elite of China. I have not had one student out of over 1000 who does not profess deep hatred of Japanese people.
They have been 'taught' about the evil Japanese-USA-Capitalism since primary school. Thus, comparing cultivated Chinese hatred with a bunch of drunken English yobs smashing up cars following a football match is ridiculous.
I have had seemingly rational and intelligent students write things about looking forward to China's continued advancement so that when they are powerful enough they can start and win World War III. 
First we'll take on Taiwan, then deal with Japan and then the USA. A pretty common belief among the brainwashed drones.
The CCP's success at blaming foreigners for China's problems is remarkable, but getting this genie back in the bottle is not going to be easy or pretty. Until the CCP is no longer running the show, nothing good is going to be coming out of China.
On the positive side, China is faced with so many internal problems, it will be a VERY long time before it can upset the status quo in NE Asia. (Knock wood!) |
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Lyrt
Joined: 26 May 2004
Location: Somewhere in France
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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The majority of academic research on the Nanjing Incident is conducted in Japanese, English and Chinese. Of the three language groups, Japanese has produced the most sophisticated research, with the debate in English lagging decades behind. The most objective Chinese language materials are the collections of various primary sources, including the recollections of many of the Chinese military personnel in Nanjing.[5] However, these collections show no evidence of any vigorous critical attempt to distinguish between valid primary materials and other materials: photographs, for instance, which are known to be fabricated, or from different areas and different times, continue to be used to "prove" Japanese guilt in the winter of 1937-38 at Nanjing. Moreover, because of the limitations on free speech in mainland China, much of the secondary material merely parrots the government line of the day, and it would be difficult to describe the situation as a "debate".
http://www.japanesestudies.org.uk/articles/Askew.html |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:25 am Post subject: |
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Wow, imagine that. A pro-Japanese source that claims the most "sophisticated" research about The Rape of Nanking comes from rapists themselves ... and the source refers to it as an "Incident."
Isn't this a little bit like enlisting Michael Jackson as an expert witness in a trial about kiddie porn? |
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Freezer Burn
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:46 am Post subject: |
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I lived in small town Changsha, China.
The level of education their in China causes a domino effect of sheep-following, they really arent too bright (go breed be a better china said Mao, oh yes) as a collective country and thats the most dangerous thing, if a population blindly follows without having an opinion of their own, or reason, thats how wars begin.
The anti-Japanese sentiment starts at birth in my primary/middle school there were posters of japanese soldiers lopping of the heads of the chinese POW's and various other hate propaganda, and primary school kids aged five and up were all taught in class to hatethe japanese.
All my students picked on the japanese student in my class.
Maybe its jelousy, if anyones been to Japan, you would see that they are the far superior asian race.
And thats not a pro Japanese statement, my father was in Changi for three years, and he hates them. |
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bossaco
Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Location: jongro-gu
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 3:00 am Post subject: |
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heard from a friend that a filipino was stabbed and killed while touring tiannamen square... his daughter also died later in the hospital... apparently, the chinese who killed them thought that they were japanese...
i searched for it on the internet and found the story here...
http://news.inq7.net/mobile/html_output/20050421-34476.xml.html |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
Wow, imagine that. A pro-Japanese source that claims the most "sophisticated" research about The Rape of Nanking comes from rapists themselves ... and the source refers to it as an "Incident."
Isn't this a little bit like enlisting Michael Jackson as an expert witness in a trial about kiddie porn? |
Do you really think that debate about the rape of Nanking could take place in China to the extent that it did in Japan where Japanese authors were writing books highly critical of their government, and imperial Japan's war time record? I want to know if you believe Chinese historians could print anything remotely different from the Chinese government's position that the Japanese were evil butchers. Straight up. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:19 am Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| The Bobster wrote: |
Wow, imagine that. A pro-Japanese source that claims the most "sophisticated" research about The Rape of Nanking comes from rapists themselves ... and the source refers to it as an "Incident."
Isn't this a little bit like enlisting Michael Jackson as an expert witness in a trial about kiddie porn? |
Do you really think that debate about the rape of Nanking could take place in China to the extent that it did in Japan where Japanese authors were writing books highly critical of their government, and imperial Japan's war time record? I want to know if you believe Chinese historians could print anything remotely different from the Chinese government's position that the Japanese were evil butchers. Straight up. |
What I think is that no one asks an accused rapist his views on feminism and the rights of women in a civil society, and there is good reason for it.
The account of the Rape of Nanking - which your source conspicuously called an "Incident" - is not one that has been concocted solely by the Marxist regime in China. You are disningenuous to suggest such a thing. |
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Rock
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| teachmeenglish wrote: |
Well just finished teaching a year in beijing for YBM, and my feeling is that China is scary adn somethign to be scared of. While many of us in Korea have looked at Koreans and wondered how they could believe some things (fan death) despite so much evidence to the contratry, china is a world beyond that. Believes and blindnesses in china are stagerign. Eg having my apartment owner who is a governemnt officail threaten to hire people to disrupt our classes adn have me beat up because I complained and moved out of my apartment due to 100s of *beep* a week. Or having cars run red lights and almost hit me then yell at me for beign angry.
At least in Beijing, the level of blindness and "mob" thinking is unbelievable. Honestly, it is a country to be afraid of..... very afraid of. |
You know, Teachmeenglish, my sentiments are exactly the same. The ignorance over in China is something much, much more debilitating to normal reason and your sense of personhood than anything I've yet to encounter here in Korea. And by ignorance, I mean sheer and subtle deviltry ingrained in the Chinese culture and mindset.
It's something fearful, because the thought of the mob mentality is always against you, and this their ploy. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:42 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| What I think is that no one asks an accused rapist his views on feminism and the rights of women in a civil society, and there is good reason for it. |
The 300,000 number didn't come up until ten years after, and no credible proof was offered but rather simply claims were made by China. Aid agencies on the ground at the time do not support the claims that hundreds of thousands of people were killed, nor do the logistics involved match up with the claims of what happened.
Were there casualties? Yes. But that's what happens when a defending army's soldiers choose to stage a fight in a city, and starts shedding their uniforms to take up civilian clothing within the city with the hopes that they can fade away as it was widely viewed by the Chinese military that Japan wasn't going to be stopped at Nanking with the military resources assigned to defend the city.
Even the original claims of a massacre weren't made by aid agencies, but rather by China's female represenative in Washington during an appeal for the U.S. to join the war against Japan much later, and prior to her announcement of a blood orgy, no one had mentioned it before which was pretty odd given the the amount of third parties on the ground in China before, during, and after the invasion of Nanking. The parallels between that and the fake baby murder stories of the Kuwait invasion of 1990 are interesting. |
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Cthulhu
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:43 am Post subject: |
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Gord wrote:
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| Even the original claims of a massacre weren't made by aid agencies, but rather by China's female represenative in Washington during an appeal for the U.S. to join the war against Japan much later, and prior to her announcement of a blood orgy, no one had mentioned it before which was pretty odd given the the amount of third parties on the ground in China before, during, and after the invasion of Nanking. |
But there were third parties on the ground who reported it:
"American Missionary Eyewitnesses to the Nanjing Massacre," the current Yale Divinity Library exhibit, includes documentation from the papers of nine American missionaries who remained in Nanjing throughout the Massacre. By some estimates, the Japanese army killed more than 300,000 Chinese and raped nearly 80,000 women in the city of Nanjing between December 13, 1937 and the end of March, 1938. The missionaries' letters, diaries, reports, and photographs provide graphic evidence of a horrific frenzy of beheading, bayoneting, burying alive, burning, gang-raping, and other atrocities. This evidence is of particular interest because the Japanese government has refused to officially recognize that these atrocities took place, nor does any mention of the Nanjing Massacre appear in Japanese school textbooks.
The Divinity Library recently received a photocopy of the extensive diary of John Rabe. This diary came to light only a few months ago when Rabe's granddaughter was tracked down by a researcher who had come across Rabe's name in the missionary accounts held at the Divinity Library. Rabe's diary is of particular interest because he was a German and a member of the Nazi Party. Germany was strengthening its alliance with Japan during this time period and it was of no possible personal gain to Rabe for him to expose the Japanese atrocities. When he went back to Germany in February 1938 and tried to bring the Japanese activities to the attention of the German government, his efforts were rebuffed and his career suffered significantly. Since certain Japanese officials have sought to characterize American accounts of the Nanjing massacre as fabrications designed to discredit the Japanese, it is of note that a German ally's accounts clearly corroborate those of the Americans.
http://www.library.yale.edu/NotaBene/nbx3/divupdat.htm
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| The parallels between that and the fake baby murder stories of the Kuwait invasion of 1990 are interesting. |
Although also imperfect, I think a better comparion than Kuwait would be one comparing the situation of the Westerners working in Nanking with the helplessness of U.N. peacekeeper Romeo Dallaire in Rwanda as he and his tiny force tried to save Tutsis by making a safety zone in a small area (a soccer field in that case) as murder went on all around them:
When Nanjing fell to the Japanese, there were twenty-seven Westerners remaining in the city; of these fifteen were Americans, primarily missionaries from the Episcopal, Disciples of Christ, Presbyterian, and Methodist churches. The missionaries worked together with others, including the German businessman John Rabe, to establish the International Committee for the Nanking Safety Zone shortly before the capture of Nanjing by the Japanese. Once the Massacre set in, the Safety Zone became the only place that offered some resemblance of sanctuary; more than 200,000 people crowded into the Zone, an area about one-eighth of the city. The missionaries, Rabe, and a few other Westerners risked their lives daily in order to protect thousands of Chinese from being murdered and thousands of women from being raped by the Japanese army.
It seems to me there were more than Chinese sources talking about a massacre, and these ones were in the middle of it. One can dispute the numbers, but I find it difficult to dispute a massacre took place unless one can find a way to discredit those Western businessmen, doctors and missionaries. |
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