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Is it time for the US Military to go?
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Do you think the US military need to go?
Yes
40%
 40%  [ 15 ]
Yes, but reduce the numbers to a few hundred
16%
 16%  [ 6 ]
No
43%
 43%  [ 16 ]
Total Votes : 37

Author Message
Ajarn Miguk



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: TDY As Assigned

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem? Reply with quote

The Bobster wrote:
Ajarn Miguk wrote:
Korea is a sovereign nation. As such, it can order the U.S. military to leave whenever it so dictates while assuming total responsibility for its defense and security.

I have said on other forums that I think Korea should ask the American military to leave. I agree with many of the criticisms being made by Korea about US conduct in other countries, but in order to be able to make those criticisms they need to cease the biliteral defense treaties.

Many Koreans have told me that the biggest obstacle to re-unification if the US government. I think they might be right. If so, they need to act on that, and take care of business themselves.


So why don't they?
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indiercj



Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem? Reply with quote

Ajarn Miguk wrote:
The Bobster wrote:
Ajarn Miguk wrote:
Korea is a sovereign nation. As such, it can order the U.S. military to leave whenever it so dictates while assuming total responsibility for its defense and security.

I have said on other forums that I think Korea should ask the American military to leave. I agree with many of the criticisms being made by Korea about US conduct in other countries, but in order to be able to make those criticisms they need to cease the biliteral defense treaties.

Many Koreans have told me that the biggest obstacle to re-unification if the US government. I think they might be right. If so, they need to act on that, and take care of business themselves.


So why don't they?


We do. But still, some don't. That's whom Mr. Roh reffered as "Koreans who think as American more than the Americans themselves", the ultra Pro-American conservatives.
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Derrek



Joined: 15 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone here actually BELIEVE that KJII would give up any ounce of power if there were a "reunification?"

Some of you need to wake up and smell what you are shoveling.

Unifying the two Koreas couldn't possibly be more akin to mixing oil and water. Which side will "give" in to the other's form of goverment? Do you expect the North to simply allow captialism to happen up there? Do you expect the South to allow itself to be ruled by KJII?

Do you expect the South Koreans to fund all of the reunification? Do you expect the North Koreans, when they see Samsung and Lotte popping up around them, to be content with their low uneducated wages? Do you expect them to simply "be happy" that the Southern people are attempting (and currently act like they expect) to rule over them and control their lives? Come on... as I understand it, these are the very reasons why the war began in the first place -- the North hating the Southern people trying to control the whole pie!

Take a look at what happens to the North Koreans when they defect here. They are treated like 2nd rate citizens. They are given money from the government, and then they are preyed upon buy South Koreans, who see any easy target because NK's have no idea how to handle it! I promise you, this would happen on a MASS SCALE if reunification were to happen! And when cheated, these people will be pissed and want to fight back. Guess what happens next? A whole lot of problems, and possibly another war.

Some of us live in a dreamworld. Some of us live in reality.

With that, I hope, very much, that the SK gov't will ask the US troops to leave. But they won't. Roh and his posse want the US to leave, but they don't want to be responsible for the backlash caused by that. They want to blame all problems associated with the US leaving on just one entity: The US.
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dogbert



Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's funny how South Koreans can see the U.S. as the "biggest obstacle to unification", when it's clear that the biggest obstacle (although also the smallest, in a way) is their fellow Korean Kim Jong-il himself. All that needs to happen is for Kim to give up, a la Gorbachev, Honeceker, et al. But stubbornness is an admirable trait for many Koreans, hence, the obstacle.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tzechuk wrote:
But seriously, most of my friends who follow worlds news reckon that the north will attack the south as soon as the US military leaves. Confused


What an idiotic idea. KJI wouldn't do squat if the US pulls out. Well ok, he'd throw a big party and claim he kicked the yanks' butt.
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Ajarn Miguk



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: TDY As Assigned

PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 10:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Problem? Reply with quote

indiercj wrote:
Ajarn Miguk wrote:
The Bobster wrote:
Ajarn Miguk wrote:
Korea is a sovereign nation. As such, it can order the U.S. military to leave whenever it so dictates while assuming total responsibility for its defense and security.

I have said on other forums that I think Korea should ask the American military to leave. I agree with many of the criticisms being made by Korea about US conduct in other countries, but in order to be able to make those criticisms they need to cease the biliteral defense treaties.

Many Koreans have told me that the biggest obstacle to re-unification if the US government. I think they might be right. If so, they need to act on that, and take care of business themselves.


So why don't they?


We do. But still, some don't. That's whom Mr. Roh reffered as "Koreans who think as American more than the Americans themselves", the ultra Pro-American conservatives.


Please try harder. Many of us are counting on you.
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gypsyfish



Joined: 17 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Is it time for the US Military to go? Reply with quote

[quote="The Bobster"]
lastat06513 wrote:
Quote:
5. Annoucing Kim Il Sung as a "Freedom fighter"

Rumor has it, he was instrumental in the struggle against Japanese colonialism here. Koreans might think that qualifies as a freedom fighter, and strictly speaking, of course, it does.


Rumor also has it that Kim Il Sung and his guerrilla forces expelled the Japanese from North Korea in 1945 and that he and his son 'have (had)thaumaturgical power and links with the supernatural'.

Accepting rumor as history is a bad idea.
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have heard that most will move out of the Itawon area by 2007. That will be great. It would be nice to see them as far from Seoul as possible if they do have to stay in Korea. Imagine what it would be like to live/work around Itawon in a few years with no GIs around.
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lastat06513



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yu_Bum_suk wrote
Quote:
Imagine what it would be like to live/work around Itawon in a few years with no GIs around.


A good example is Dongdaemun.
If you go to the area between APM and Fraya town, you will see a big wall surrounding a complex of houses there. That used to be a small compound the US used a long time ago. As you can see, the area grew into a major shopping and textile district and alot of foreigners shop and in fact live in that area.

And another example would be the way Itaewon was right after 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq.
But I highly doubt the economy in Itaewon would collapse anytime soon, there are too many Japanese (not much anymore, though) and increasing number if chinese coming here. But I do know alot of shops are moving to the pyongtaek area to set up near the new complex.

There will be some hard times at first, but I think things will pick up again after a while.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One simpler solution would be to move the troops out of the city (I know, that is in the works). It simply should have been done a LONG time ago.

Why there are military units of another nations army in the capital is beyond me (and yes, I understand he historical context but still beleive it is the height of ignorance to keep them stationed in Yonsan).




Anyways, I too was looking for more comments by inerject (or whatever the name is). Honestly, quoting one of Noh's dumbest quotes of the week is hardly creative.


The Koreans DO need to decide their own policies. The Koreans DO need to determine who is a friend and who is not. The Koreans DO need to work on their diplomacy and treaty making skills. But most of al the Koreans DO need to get rid of that schmo Noh and put someone with a sense of history and a vision for the future into office.
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lastat06513 wrote:
Yu_Bum_suk wrote
Quote:
Imagine what it would be like to live/work around Itawon in a few years with no GIs around.


A good example is Dongdaemun.
If you go to the area between APM and Fraya town, you will see a big wall surrounding a complex of houses there. That used to be a small compound the US used a long time ago. As you can see, the area grew into a major shopping and textile district and alot of foreigners shop and in fact live in that area.

And another example would be the way Itaewon was right after 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq.
But I highly doubt the economy in Itaewon would collapse anytime soon, there are too many Japanese (not much anymore, though) and increasing number if chinese coming here. But I do know alot of shops are moving to the pyongtaek area to set up near the new complex.

There will be some hard times at first, but I think things will pick up again after a while.


To rephrase the rabbi from Fiddler on the Roof:

'G-d bless and keep the GIs... far away from us'.
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Ajarn Miguk



Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: TDY As Assigned

PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:05 am    Post subject: Doubt Reply with quote

Yu_Bum_suk wrote:
lastat06513 wrote:
Yu_Bum_suk wrote
Quote:
Imagine what it would be like to live/work around Itawon in a few years with no GIs around.


A good example is Dongdaemun.
If you go to the area between APM and Fraya town, you will see a big wall surrounding a complex of houses there. That used to be a small compound the US used a long time ago. As you can see, the area grew into a major shopping and textile district and alot of foreigners shop and in fact live in that area.

And another example would be the way Itaewon was right after 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq.
But I highly doubt the economy in Itaewon would collapse anytime soon, there are too many Japanese (not much anymore, though) and increasing number if chinese coming here. But I do know alot of shops are moving to the pyongtaek area to set up near the new complex.

There will be some hard times at first, but I think things will pick up again after a while.


To rephrase the rabbi from Fiddler on the Roof:

'G-d bless and keep the GIs... far away from us'.


I doubt you will find many GIs disagreeing with you on that one.
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