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F-4 questions and military service

 
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neutron44



Joined: 01 May 2005

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 8:46 pm    Post subject: F-4 questions and military service Reply with quote

Hello everyone,

I have arrived in Korea and obtained my F-4. I have read a lot of threads posted about F-4 visas and was hoping somebody could answer my questions.

1. Would immigration tell me if I had to serve in the Korean Military?

2. If I have already obtained my F-4 does that mean that I renounced my Korean citizenship, thus making it impossible for me to serve? I am an adopted Korean and I only have an American passport and on my family registery it only had my name as Family Chief with no previous family record. I did have to go to the province office and get a paper but I don't know exactly what it said on it.

3. Is there a website or a document explaining F-4 rights?

4. If I have an F-4 and want to teach privates do I need permission from my academy?

5. If I want to buy an apartment in Daegu what is the best agency to go through?

Thanks again. I am only worried about the military because I don't know if I renounced my Korean citizenship status or if I have a dual citizenship without knowing it. I don't think I do but I need to find out to ease my mind.

Neutron44
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Real Reality



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Korean-American Forced to Serve in Military
Kang came back to live in his motherland when he was 32 years old after both his parents passed away in the U.S. "I knew any male had to serve in the military (in Korea), but I thought the age limit was 32. My pastor also told me that I'd be exempt from the Korean military service because I served in the U.S. military," Kang said. However, when Kang tried to apply for his citizen's registration card, he found out that he was still required to serve out his mandatory two years as the Defense Ministry had changed their age limit to 35 a few years ago. The government pays him 26,000 won a month ($21) and some 110,000 won for lunch and transportation.
by Byun Duk-kun, Korea Times (December 12, 2003)
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200312/kt2003121218123212020.htm

The accidental citizen soldier
Young Jin Chun is thoroughly American, a 25-year-old Bellevue resident and Newport High School graduate who wanted to soak up his ancestral culture and learn Korean while teaching English overseas for a year or two. Thanks to the South Korean government, he's getting that experience, but not in the way he ever imagined. The planets did not align for Chun. They collided.

Although he's a U.S. citizen, Chun has been drafted into the South Korean army -- a two-year hitch in one of the world's most tense military regions.

As Chun belatedly learned, the South Korean government determines citizenship not by where a person is born, but by the citizenship of his or her parents.

In Chun's case, it appears a family member -- maybe his paternal grandfather or his father, who is divorced from Chun's mother and lives in South Korea -- entered his name in the nation's family census registry, the hojok
.

Chun's parents emigrated to the United States in 1973 and became naturalized citizens. His father completed his doctorate in engineering at the University of Illinois-Champaign, where Young Jin, the middle of three sons, was born eight days before Christmas 1978.
By JOHN IWASAKI, SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER (April 8, 2004)
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/168210_korean08.html
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prosodic



Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Real Reality wrote:
Although he's a U.S. citizen, Chun has been drafted into the South Korean army -- a two-year hitch in one of the world's most tense military regions.

As Chun belatedly learned, the South Korean government determines citizenship not by where a person is born, but by the citizenship of his or her parents.

In Chun's case, it appears a family member -- maybe his paternal grandfather or his father, who is divorced from Chun's mother and lives in South Korea -- entered his name in the nation's family census registry, the hojok


This is not a risk in the OP's case. If he has obtained an F-4 visa, that means that he had to submit a cancelled hojok. If one's hojok has been cancelled, that means that one is no longer considered to be a Korean citizen and need not worry about mandatory military conscription.

Put simply, countries do not give visas to their own citizens. If you got a visa, then you can't be considered a citizen. If they consider you to be a citizen, then they will refuse to give you a visa and you might have a problem in that case.

In the case of Young Jin Chun, the person in the article that RR quoted, I can easily understand how he could be considered to be a dual citizen. Although his parents moved to the U.S. in 1973, it is unlikely that they were naturalized before Chun was born in 1978. The wheels of U.S. INS simply do not move that quickly. There are too many hoops to jump through to do it in five years. Therefore, Chun would have been born with dual citizenship. He would have had Korean citizenship from being born of Korean citizens and would have had U.S. citizenship from being born on U.S. soil.

Although the U.S. discourages dual citizenship and requests that dual citizens renounce one country's citizenship at the age of 18, the onus to do so lies squarely upon the shoulders of the person. It is not automatic.

In the case of Kang, the other person cited by RR, it is apparent that Kang knowingly had Korean citizenship since he tried to apply for a citizen's ID card.

Neither of these articles relate to the OP's case in any way. The OP is an adoptee and the hojok is cancelled as part of the adoption process. Sorry RR, but your quotes miss the mark this time.
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Gord



Joined: 25 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

prosodic wrote:
This is not a risk in the OP's case. If he has obtained an F-4 visa, that means that he had to submit a cancelled hojok. If one's hojok has been cancelled, that means that one is no longer considered to be a Korean citizen and need not worry about mandatory military conscription.


Unless he notified the Korean government before his 18th birthday that he was renouncing his citizenship, he may still has to serve his military time if the military hears of him. If so, he just gets trash collecting and hedge trimming duties instead of a real military position.

Becoming a non-citizen is not enough to avoid military service as the laws were changed to prevent rich citizens from migrating their adult children to the U.S., having them become U.S. citizens, and then renouncing their Korean citizenship to avoid military service. It has to be done by the time they are 18 to avoid military service.
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prosodic



Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: F-4 questions and military service Reply with quote

neutron44 wrote:
Hello everyone,

I have arrived in Korea and obtained my F-4. I have read a lot of threads posted about F-4 visas and was hoping somebody could answer my questions.

1. Would immigration tell me if I had to serve in the Korean Military?

2. If I have already obtained my F-4 does that mean that I renounced my Korean citizenship, thus making it impossible for me to serve? I am an adopted Korean and I only have an American passport and on my family registery it only had my name as Family Chief with no previous family record. I did have to go to the province office and get a paper but I don't know exactly what it said on it.

3. Is there a website or a document explaining F-4 rights?

4. If I have an F-4 and want to teach privates do I need permission from my academy?

5. If I want to buy an apartment in Daegu what is the best agency to go through?

Thanks again. I am only worried about the military because I don't know if I renounced my Korean citizenship status or if I have a dual citizenship without knowing it. I don't think I do but I need to find out to ease my mind.

Neutron44


If I understand correctly, your cancelled hojok describes you as an abandoned child. In such cases, the child was normally registered with the family name of the director, or Chief, of the orphanage (but with no familial relationship to the director). Regarding military service, the answer is no, you will not be asked to serve in the military. See my response to RR for details.

There are documents describing all the rights of F4 visa holders, but I can't remember where they are. You may want to contact Global Overseas Adoptees' Link (G.O.A'L) with specific questions:
http://goal.or.kr/new/

Regarding the question of whether or not you need your academy's permission to teach privates, the simple legal answer is no. However, there may be contractual obligations that go beyond what Korean law says. In short, the F4 visa is a fully functional work visa that does not in any way involve employer sponsorship and therefore the laws surrounding F4 visa do not require you to get your employer's permission to teach privates or to have multiple employers. Also, unlike the F2 visa, the F4 visa does not require you to get an E2 endorsement to teach English. However, you probably signed a contract with the academy and that contract may have stipulated that you agree not to work outside of the academy. Therefore, you may have legally binding contractual obligations that go beyond what is stated in Immigration law.

Beyond that, teaching privates is legal only if you register your private classes, and the income you derive from them, with your local tax office. Keep in mind that in this case, the law treats Korean citizens the same way. It is also illegal for Korean citizens to teach private classes unless the classes are registered with the tax office and the income is reported. This is one of the advantages of the F4 visa. People who have an E2 visa are not allowed to register private classes with the tax office and therefore cannot legally teach private classes.

In addition, you should note that all U.S. citizens who come to Korea to teach English are exempt from Korean taxes for two years from the date of first entry into the country. This is not automatic and some paperwork does need to be filled out. I was under the impression that this was true only if you work for a university (my case), but a lawyer friend of mine has told me that it's true for all U.S. citizens. Still, I'm not actually sure if I trust the advice of this particular lawyer friend of mine (he isn't currently practicing law). The point is that a tax exemption means that there is no incentive to be deceptive when registering private class income with the tax office.

Sorry, but I have no knowledge of real estate in Daegu.
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prosodic



Joined: 21 Jun 2004
Location: ����

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gord wrote:
prosodic wrote:
This is not a risk in the OP's case. If he has obtained an F-4 visa, that means that he had to submit a cancelled hojok. If one's hojok has been cancelled, that means that one is no longer considered to be a Korean citizen and need not worry about mandatory military conscription.


Unless he notified the Korean government before his 18th birthday that he was renouncing his citizenship, he may still has to serve his military time if the military hears of him. If so, he just gets trash collecting and hedge trimming duties instead of a real military position.

Becoming a non-citizen is not enough to avoid military service as the laws were changed to prevent rich citizens from migrating their adult children to the U.S., having them become U.S. citizens, and then renouncing their Korean citizenship to avoid military service. It has to be done by the time they are 18 to avoid military service.


The OP stated that he is an adoptee. Therefore no need to worry about military service. End of story.
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neutron44



Joined: 01 May 2005

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 12:41 am    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Thanks everyone, it has relieved some fears I have had since entering into Korea.

Neutron44
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hellofaniceguy



Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: On your computer screen!

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It says a lot about a country where the law forces one to serve in the military!
I'd say that well over 50% of korean males would rather not serve in the korean military...under the current conditions...not due to a war...but the way they are treated, abused, beaten...and the pay!!! Something like 20,000 Won a month for a private. A few Won more as one gets promoted.
And when citizens from other countries whose parents are korean are forced to serve because they are korean...the korean girl scouts/military is desperate then!
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inkoreaforgood



Joined: 15 Dec 2003
Location: Inchon

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2005 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: Thanks Reply with quote

neutron44 wrote:
Thanks everyone, it has relieved some fears I have had since entering into Korea.

Neutron44


Man, I gotta say, not the brightest thing to do. Come to a country where it's possible that you have to do time in the military, and then try to find out after you've arrived if you have to do service or not. Scary.
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