Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Rock]

It appears that on the job I always have a difficult time with these ladies. I'm not in the least chauvinistic, but I feel some differences toward women here and Western men. The women here stick together like glue, aren't communicative; they ignore you and can be testy. They seem to have a lot of control too, so therefore, are manipulators. Western men, on the other hand, don't like to be pushed around by women, or ignored.

Anyway, I came up with only one solution. I'm going to have to befriend them, take them out to pizza or bowling or something. What do you think?

In other words, I have to make an effort to pry into these women. They won't budge otherwise. They even seem to have a resentment towards me because of what I'd said to my boss about complaints.

In some respects I was wrong to do this, because I knew, like that guy Joe_Doufu, it'd have backlashes. But unlike Doufu, I knew that there's no way through things sometimes but by the front door.

Reminds me of Chamberlain and Hitler. "Everything's going to be fine", Chamberlain assured everyone after a diplomatic visit with Hitler. Next day, Hitler attacked Poland, and you know what happened next.

You have to take the bull by the horn, but these Korean female co-workers have always been an obstacle to my peace of mind and can gore you. Anyone have any helpful suggestions?

[Ekuboko]

How about bringing in a huuuge box of assorted �� (you know the rice cake things) and see if they'll have a nice chat with you then?
All the female teachers at my school LOVE eating, and go crazy whenever �� is brought in.

[Badmojo]

[mindmetoo]

[manlyboy]

I keep them at arm's length.

When I first started co-teaching with a Korean female, I went right out of my way to befriend her and establish a good relationship. She was evidently resentful of my presence from the beginning, and I foresaw some serious trouble if I didn't try to do something about it.

Unfortunately, it turned out she was just as repellant a person to socialize with as she was to work with. Outside of the school with no other Koreans around, she REALLY let it all hang out. She viciously biyatched about several people at the school, including my other co-teacher whom I was quite comfortable with. She went on about what pigs men were...even had the temerity to pointedly ask me if I had ever cheated on my wife . I got to hear all about how she hated the West, hated English, and hated working as a school teacher.

Understandably, I steered clear of her socially after that. So what happened? She felt extremely betrayed that I had offered her my friendship and then taken it away. That's when I found out about that manipulative, controlling behavior you speak of. She set about destroying my reputation at the school and spread some very ugly rumours, some of which I'm still finding out about now four months after she left. She had called me a racist, an imbecile, lazy, condescending etc. She even got a hold of my wife's cell phone number, (I've no idea how), and berated her about what a terrible man she was married to. Even after she had left the school, she continued to harass my wife. She would call my wife's cell phone late on a Saturday night. I would answer, and then she would hang up at the sound of my voice.

This term, things have improved dramatically. I've got an excellent new co-teacher, and I've made pretty good friends with some new teachers who came in this term. But there was definitely damage done, and I think I'm on the outer with a few people because of it.

Moral of the story: Be careful who you try to make friends with.

[hellofaniceguy]

Don't sweat the small stuff; for one thing, many are worried about making fools of themselves by their lack of English... even though they are suppose to be teaching ESL!

Even if you try and brown nose them..it could and does come back to haunt you!

I'm at a national university....half dozen K female teachers and not a one can carry on a conversation in English! They don't socialize no matter which foreigner asks them if they would like to join us for pizza, etc. after work.

I know many western teachers at hakowns who experience the same thing. It's k-girls feelings of insecurities. Some will have outgoing personalities and are extroverted....most are introverted.

But...IF one of them wants to socialize and be friendly...she'll let you know!!

[mindmetoo]

[mithridates]

I would be friendly. �� works good; you could also get some of those 1000-won coffee things from a convenience store for each of them. Even if one of them is vicious or manipulative it doesn't mean that you have to have a bad working relationship with them. I wouldn't go for bowling just yet, as if they still don't like you (or don't know you well enough) a trip bowling would just look like something else to do after work. If they bring up hanging out then it should be fine.

[Qinella]

[jajdude]

I have experienced being ignored as well as friendliness. My previous two or three jobs there wasn't much communication. Then again I didn't make a great effort, and some of them no doubt were timid due to the language thing. And I am just timid anyway for whatever reason. But I just started a new job and at least at first the environment seems more friendly and communicative. It will take some time of course to notice whatever difficulties there may be that I have not yet seen. I know it's a bad idea but there is one girl there I'd like to ... well, you know... ask to dinner or something at least. She's nice to talk to, and about as attractive as any "regular" girl I've met in a good while, like maybe 2-3 years! Apparently I am not meeting enough in that case! (or at least ones with good English, Korean or otherwise?)

[captain kirk]

I got some advice about sweetening up the female co-workers with periodic snack injections. This from a young Canadian guy working in Daegu. I was working at a school then that had 7 Korean female teachers, and the bosses were women. So I tried offloading snacks on them.

Delicious snacks. Mostly those blue tins of Danish butter cookies. They dug those. I'd hand them a frilly little waxed paper boat of three cookies from the tin and they'd stow them right pleased. Including the bosses up front, those ladies, delivering cookies like Mr Provider guy. I was coming from Thailand when the job started and also gave the bosses silk scarves from Thailand. And some dried Thai jackfruit, mango and so on.

It was like a break from the usual workaday gaps and mutual grievances from working in a stressful environment and wanting to put it somewhere, rivalry, whatever. Women can be catty and the foreign teacher can be a scratching post for itchy, feline, feminine claws.

One time the boss asked if I ever talked to the Korean teachers, or they to me much. I said some of them, but the most part not really. Besides me talking cheerfully to them to relax in some human chat about my hobbies, what I did on the weekend or whatever. She looked wise and said, and I agreed, that it was because they weren't confident about their English. Sure. Sometimes I'd have to ask again about what they said because I couldn't understand what they were saying.

If they come up to you and want some pointers because a kid has asked them a tough grammar question, specifics, they don't know the answer to tell them. Some of the K teachers at the school were let go because they got 'found out' by the kids, and parents complained and they were out for not knowing enough English. The boss said that in this case some of them would be relieved and invited back after they went to America or wherever to study English for six months.

Another thing is the Western notion of simple, casual friendship between genders isn't exactly present here. Also, differences in age are noted and decide beforehand the tone of the relationship. Like if you're older than these gals they might standoff because of that. Like they would if you were an older, Korean male. I noticed, when they were grouchy and clustered sniping, that it might be, also, a general male female divide that is in Korean culture.

In some schools, maybe most, they can think of the classes as 'theirs'. Because they phone the parents. The foreign teacher can be excluded from the tiresome staff meetings, as well, which they have to go to. And they can regard the foreign teacher as 'just visiting'. Their country, culture, and 'their' homeroom classes. Like they really want to 'own' the classes, anyway.

So hot and cold with these gals. Just don't piss them off, or take any guff. Like if they start trying to micromanage as 'delegates' of the boss when such a role is in their imagination. Some good times can be had in the cheerful lap of feminine fecundity

[mindmetoo]

[crazylemongirl]

I think it's really important to build up good relationships with your co-workers as otherwise they will make your life hell. i know of one case where a teacher got fired after a falling out with a co-worker (granted the co--worker dug her own grave).

Somethings to remember
Be humble. Your earning more for less work. You don't have to deal with the parents.

Be generous. snacks are important. Forgein stuff that tastes good goes down, the teachers went wild when I made some chocolate dipped strawberries (as apparently they don't do those here). I go to costco and get a big box of cookies for the teacher once an academic quater. I also bought a big box of nice cookies and candy canes for christmas for the staff. I got my co-teacers, principal and vice principal a nice present of about 20k each.

Realise that if you are a man they are going to be standoffish aruond you. Things change a bit if they find that you are married.

Learn a little korean. It shows you have an interest in the culture.

Always been nice and friendly even if you feel aweful.

[Badmojo]

[Homer]