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so what's the outcome???
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Tiberious aka Sparkles



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

harryh wrote:
RE: Transcripts.
What happens if a person applies for a postion through a recruiter?

Scenario: Let's say, a teacher has ordered transcripts from their University, and manages to arrange for them to be sent to the relevant Immigration office. But, 'unfortunately' Shocked when the transcripts have 'finally' arrived at their destination (take into consideration the time taken by the University to organise everything and send them, and for immigration to receive them) the recruiter has given the job to another teacher, as the position had to be filled 'ASAP'. As has happened to me before.

The teacher is unhappy, but thinks "Oh well, I've seen another job in another part of the country. I'll apply for that."

The teacher is then requested to provide 'sealed' transcripts to a different immigration office. Would the teacher have to go through the whole process of obtaining more transcripts to send?

It's a long process, and a frustrating one I think. Especially, when one has an original degree already here in korea with original transcripts (unsealed, as immigration opened mine in 2002) and a covering letter from the registrar at my University.


If you're sending your transcripts to immigration before you have a job, there's definitely something wrong there. A recruiter will prefer you send him/her your transcripts and diploma (usually a notarized copy of), but that's just to ensure that your not "playing the field," so to speak, in terms of the number of agencies you've contacted.

Sparkles*_*
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eamo



Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jongnoguru.

Post of the month!! Very funny.

Will I walk around Seoul one day and see the Statue of Liberty half-buried in Namsan park and cry, "It was America afterall", while pounding the ground with my fists?
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lastat06513



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jongnoguru

I also have to admit, you did bring some slapstick to the issue
Thanks Wink
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Gollum



Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mishlert wrote:
I think that they should start thinking about a central database. With it, you get your E-1, or E-2 once, and when you go into any immigration office in Korea for another one they can type your name in and, voiola, there you are having already gone through the hoops once, so no need to go through them again.
\

Not possible. That would mean the ajosshis on floor 2 of immigration, like Seung Ho, would actually have to learn something more than cave-man era filing.
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hari seldon



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lastat06513 wrote:

...I'm sorry to say, but alot of teachers going to teach at institutes tend to leave in mid-contract in search for better positions. But for some, this new regulation would stop that and force them to endure such bad conditions.
I know alot of people say, you will earn enough money to get them for your next job. But alot of people go through so much that they don't want to wait that long and some pull the infamous "mid-night runs".
This new regulation won't make life better, conditions will stay the same, it is just less people will come. You might think of that as a good thing, but overall, it is not as good as you think...

I think just the opposite is starting to happen. Here and there, gradually, hagwon owners are starting to realize that it's more difficult to hire teachers. In some instances, when the job isn't in a desirable location, they're starting to offer more money. The smart owners will reevaluate working conditions. They'll make an extra effort to keep teachers that are able to retain students.
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hari seldon



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Homer wrote:
Logically,

Your transcripts would have to be sent directly from your university to immigration.

Pratically, you could keep a few in sealed envelopes and send them to immigration along with your other work visa application documents.

That's the smart approach. I had my university mail me several transcripts sealed in envelopes before I flew to Korea. Now they're ready to use whenever I need them.
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chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious (as are probably XYZ amount of directors and recruiters are doing right now) about where in this modified process is going to be the opening for the bribe. There's no way in hell that directors, en masse, are going to give up monthly profit margin to make more tolerable class schedules, better provided living conditions, and salaries, without first considering the token bribe of a few hundred thousand Won to put a visa process in motion, that will only need to get done, once a year.
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hari seldon



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chronicpride wrote:
I'm curious (as are probably XYZ amount of directors and recruiters are doing right now) about where in this modified process is going to be the opening for the bribe. There's no way in hell that directors, en masse, are going to give up monthly profit margin to make more tolerable class schedules, better provided living conditions, and salaries, without first considering the token bribe of a few hundred thousand Won to put a visa process in motion, that will only need to get done, once a year.

A 100,000 won bribe won't waive the need for an official transcript. You would have to bribe more than one person.
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mastrwik



Joined: 28 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post JongnoGuru.
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lastat06513



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some think things will get better after all the regulations are in order, that this will make the situation better for the teachers.

Guess what, it won't

People should think from the Korean business mindset.

To provide better conditions and salary would make them raise tuition costs, this would be undesirable, especially since Koreans are already complaining of high education costs as it is. And with the continued economic slump, people would rather send their children to other programs or even overseas to get an English education rather than pay more for the tuition, especially if the teacher is too old to play and sing to their children

Hours won't be lessened because then the Korean teaching staff would complain about the unfair pay and hours the foreign teachers would get compared to themselves. And they need to have a flexible schedule for the children. So, to make for the lost time, they might even start asking people to teach on saturdays.

For the boss to sit down and discuss issues with his teachers and come to a compromise would be like losing face with the other employees because it makes him look weak. So, treatment won't get better.

Just give it time, lets see where all this is leading to, whether it be for the best...or for the worst.
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chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we'll likely see stuff like when the director goes to immigration with the teacher, and the director makes a huge stink, like 'his university says that it will take 4-6 weeks for the transcripts to be mailed here, DO YOU WANT TO JEOPARDIZE MY BUSINESS!!! RAWR! RAWR!'

/public humiliation of immigration officials ensue

This scenario I can see happening a lot, regardless of how many lectures the schools and recruiters will get about planning for this in advance.

The E2 will then get processed with someone making the notation that the school needs to come back in a few months with the sealed transcript, of which there will be zero attention paid nor any follow-up by immigration when the school doesn't show.

It'll turn into an IOU thing where the IOUs will get lost in the shuffle, and Immigration officals that approved the E2 can either make note of the IOU and blame the schools down the road for failing their responsibility, or what will likely come about when this becomes so routine, is that they will just click the box on the computer screen where it says that they saw the transcript at that time of processing, and move onto to the next guy in line. Considering how under-staffed that they say they are, I'll lean towards this scenario.
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lastat06513



Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sadly enough
yes
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hari seldon



Joined: 05 Dec 2004
Location: Incheon

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chronicpride wrote:
I think we'll likely see stuff like when the director goes to immigration with the teacher, and the director makes a huge stink, like 'his university says that it will take 4-6 weeks for the transcripts to be mailed here, DO YOU WANT TO JEOPARDIZE MY BUSINESS!!! RAWR! RAWR!'...

Laughing There's no reason why a transcript should take longer than two weeks to arrive if expedited mailing is used.

If you went to some obscure, shithole school that treats its alumni shabbily by taking weeks to process a transcript request, then you'll have to plan in advance and put aside some sealed transcripts.
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chronicpride wrote:
...or what will likely come about when this becomes so routine, is that they will just click the box on the computer screen where it says that they saw the transcript at that time of processing, and move onto to the next guy in line...


*sniff, sniff* Ahhhh... the Guru detects that sickly-sweet scent of decay and corruption once again...

Director: Please, oh please won't you click the little box... Crying or Very sad
IO Official: Hmm... Perhaps you'd be interested in our "Accelerated Processing Plan" -- I can assure you the rates are very competitive. If you're interested, we can discuss this further at the snackbar downstairs.

This is just an E-2 visa, but in some areas of bureaucracy, entire department stores have come tumbling down thanks to such ... creativity.
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chronicpride



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hari seldon wrote:
chronicpride wrote:
I think we'll likely see stuff like when the director goes to immigration with the teacher, and the director makes a huge stink, like 'his university says that it will take 4-6 weeks for the transcripts to be mailed here, DO YOU WANT TO JEOPARDIZE MY BUSINESS!!! RAWR! RAWR!'...

Laughing There's no reason why a transcript should take longer than two weeks to arrive if expedited mailing is used.

If you went to some obscure, *beep* school that treats its alumni shabbily by taking weeks to process a transcript request, then you'll have to plan in advance and put aside some sealed transcripts.


Maybe you misunderstand my example. I'm not talking about the teacher's story. Nor realistic turnaround times for registrar offices sending out transcripts. The scenario that I described is the story that an impatient director will be spinning to immigration to expedite the process, if he only has the degree with him, or if the young, attractive teacher that he really wants, cannot come up with a transcript in short order(ie., has a fake degree).
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