Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Thunndarr]

I find it interesting that Boeing and Airbus are pursuing two completely different tacts with respect to the future of airline travel. The A380 is designed primarily with idea that the current market situation will continue into the future, ie, that of traveling from hub to hub and then taking smaller planes to your final destination. Boeing has developed a smaller plane that, as I understand it, is more designed to fly from mid-size airports to mid-size airports, meaning that you'd bypass the major hubs and fly directly to your destination.

I'm curious how that is going to pan out. To be honest, I would prefer to have a greater number of direct flights between cities instead of having to fly all over the world to get where I'm going. Time will tell I suppose.

[Wangja]

[yoda]

The impetus for Airbus to build the A380 was not just pure profit from the sale of the A380 alone. It's to pull the wind out of boeing's already drooping sails. It's unlikely they will turn a profit from it.

This is an interesting case of game theory. The market will probably only sustain one giant airliner, but whoever builds that one airliner will reap huge profits (as the boeing 747 has) because they have a monopoly on that niche of airliner. Medium airliners (150-300 seat) are very competitive. Both Airbus and Boeing have to give steep discounts to sell them. (Their other sales tactic is to get their government to exchange political concessions for sales). The situation for small airliner (in the 100 seat range) sales is even worse because Boeing and Airbus have to compete with Bombardier and some South American Company whose name I can't remember. So far only the jumbo airliner has been a monopolistic market (held by the boeing 747). Boeing has used the huge profits from sales of the 747 to subsidize sales of other airliners by bundling the sales together. By making the 747 obsolete, Airbus has effectively denied Boeing from using one of it's best strategies.

So now both Boeing (with it's soon to be upgraded super 747) and Airbus with the A380 will be selling superjumbos at a loss just to prevent the other guy from gaining the upperhand.

The lack of sales looks likes it will hurt Airbus badly, but it is also hurting Boeing where it really counts.

[Wangja]

The South American company is Embraer (sp), Empresa Brasileira something. But I don't think they build anything above 50 seats? (Could be wrong).

And in Europe, if still in business, there is Dutch Fokke - remember F-27s? They build (or did) up to around 120 seats.

Interesting perspective, that the A380 had rendered the 747 obsolete, I hadn't seen it that way, but it's true. Boeing had a good run with the 747 though, nearly 40 years old.

All that discounting helps keep flight cost down. Although I recall someone saying that everybody makes money out of aviation except the airlines.

[yoda]

Embraer, that's it! Both Bombardier and Embraer are looking to go after the 70-120 seat market (for use in direct flights between small cities, which Thundarr was referencing).

This is from Embraer's website:

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

[Wangja]

Thanks, Joo, interesting.

But I see it's a C-130, 4-prop for the Marine Corps being built in 2000.

Does the USAF use them too? Or do they use only KC-767's?

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]

I dunno the answer but if you find any subsidies that the US government gives Boeing for civilian aircraft you will let us know , and I am sure you will

[Wangja]

[Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee]