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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
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| why don't you give some other that giving in to the enemy. |
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Provide suggestion of what the US ought to be doing to force mid east regimes to change their behavior. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Provide suggestion of what the US ought to be doing to force mid east regimes to change their behavior. |
Not a god-damned thing.
Why is that never an option with you people? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Correction : defns are only important to those who want to dfistract discussions away into minutiae about what is and isn't torture rather than confront the basic question of whether its use by a democracy in fact undermines that democracy, and whether it is smart or practical or useful at all to seek intel that is unreliable from prisoners questioned under pain and duress. |
why just cause you say so?
What is torture?
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| I'd like to hear more about that - if you could publish a source I would be grateful. |
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| Beyond the benefits of simply keeping those who have taken up arms against us off the field (a justification that has always been deemed sufficient), one must also consider the benefits of obtaining information from the Gitmo detainees. Friedman seems oblivious to them. He thus aligns himself with the simple-minded left, which appears to think that we're interrogating the detainees for no reason other than sadism. The military, of course, is reluctant to discuss with specificity what it has learned from the Gitmo detainees. However, it does claim to have obtained valuable information. For example, it says we are saving lives in Iraq through knowledge gained from Gitmo detainees about al Qaeda's use of explosive devices. Such information has enabled us to engage in reverse engineering that makes the Iraqi insurgents less lethal. The military also claims to have gained valuable information from Gitmo detainees about how al Qaeda's leadership functions -- how it communicates and moves money, for example. It has also learned the details of how al Qaeda trains its fighters. One key element of the training is to complain, if captured, about "torture." |
http://powerlineblog.com/archives/010601.php
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| But it is why you and other haters defend it. |
Actually no , but this is coming from the king of slander and hypocrisy.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Provide suggestion of what the US ought to be doing to force mid east regimes to change their behavior. |
Not a god-damned thing.
Why is that never an option with you people? |
then you can expect the the terrorists to keep coming cause they want the Caliphate. It will be hard to give into all their demands, especially when they start adding new ones.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:42 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Provide suggestion of what the US ought to be doing to force mid east regimes to change their behavior. |
Not a god-damned thing.
Why is that never an option with you people? |
then you can expect the the terrorists to keep coming cause they want the Caliphate.
It will be hard to give into all their demands. |
That's what they said in the 16th Century too. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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the are more motivated and capable now. And they have adopted western fascism.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| The litany you describe is pretty bogus and irrational, has little to do with logic or how things are in the world, reflects a small mind that only sees relations between people in terms of dominance and submission. |
no they want to teach hate , they are the reason for the terror. Let them give up their war. They trained 70,000 when the US was defending muslims.
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| You have no credentials to be able to make judgments about who is and is not a good American, not when you recommend torture as a viable tool, defend the incarceration without trial of an American citizen like Padilla, and imply the worst thing about the abuses of the American military abroad is that people found out about them. |
If you worry that the US is too powerful
If you think that any strategic gains in Iraq are ill gotten and must be returned
and when you refuse to condemn nations who made war against the US.
And condemn the US for its actions in Iraq but refuse to condemn the insurgents for their war and then spin it to make them look good.
It is pretty clear whose side you are not on.
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| In fact, the views of people like you provide a very good standard by which to judge what is NOT pro-American. |
Anyone who condemns the US for its actions in Iraq but doesn't condemn the insurgents isn't pro peace.
Go worry that the US is too powerful |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 9:26 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:12 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:22 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
How can you be pro peace when you refuse to condemn the insurgents, and other wars by actors hostile to the Us when asked. [/quo0te]
How can YOU be pro-America when you defend torture and wish for it more witrh evry day? How can anyone who claims to love our country be so clueless about what our country means?
I will not condemn someone or something merelyi because the likes of you seem to require that of me - it is not I who needs to prove his love for our country. It is you, my friend, it is you who by your words here for along time have shwon yourself to be antithetical to the ideals and realities of what our country truly is.
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I asked for evidence of somethingyou said that sounded like new informatiojn to me, and what do I get?
A blog.
Hey, I got a blog, too, and so do 3 or 4 of my friends. I know 14-year-old students with teddy bears on their bedsheets who got blogs. |
well he says it and if he were lying he could come up with a lot better lies .
That is what he reported & I got no reason to believe that he is lying. |
He didn't report anything. He just mentioned something in a sideline context that some guy might have told him over lunch. He did not link to any actual source, and he did not provide evidence, even anecdotal, of his own.
This is what else he said in the same blkog entry :
I can't quantify, or even confirm, the intelligence benefits of past and present interrogations of the Gitmo detainees
He admits hiumself it ain't real.
And you repeat what he just tossed off as an aside and you believe it as if it were religious doctrine. I'm still looking for some actual, true and valuable intel that has been obtained by means of torture, or even by means of the extra-constitutional detainment at Guantanamo.
Let me know when you come across anything like that.
Last edited by The Bobster on Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| How can YOU be pro-America when you defend torture and wish for it more witrh evry day? How can anyone who claims to love our country be so clueless about what our country means? |
Well cause the US on its worst day i s better than those like the insurgent or Al Qaida on their best day. Winning means less bad things, therefore win as fast as possible with whatever it tkaes.
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| I will not condemn someone or something merelyi because the likes of you seem to require that of me - it is not I who needs to prove his love for our country. It is you, my friend, it is you who by your words here for along time have shwon yourself to be antithetical to the ideals and realities of what our country truly is. |
well then you are not pro US, especially cause you spin their actions as defending their homes and familes.
again
If you worry that the US is too powerful
If you think that any strategic gains in Iraq are ill gotten and must be returned
and when you refuse to condemn nations who made war against the US.
And condemn the US for its actions in Iraq but refuse to condemn the insurgents for their war and then spin it to make them look good.
It is pretty clear whose side you are not on.
and certainly you can not be pro peace if you condemn the US for its actions but refuse to condemn the insurgents for their war.
peace ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ps)
n.
The absence of war or other hostilities.
An agreement or a treaty to end hostilities.
Freedom from quarrels and disagreement; harmonious relations: roommates living in peace with each other.
Public security and order: was arrested for disturbing the peace.
Inner contentment; serenity: peace of mind.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=peace
You can't be pro peace unless you condemn their war
What do you mean he admits it is not real?
He said that is what he heard or read and I have no reason to doubt him. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| You can't be pro peace unless you condemn their war |
It is not their war - it is Bush's and if you support it so much I suppose it is yours. It is a war of agression - US agression on Iraq, not Iraqi agression on the US.
This much is so obvious ... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: |
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It is not their war - it is Bush's and if you support it so much I suppose it is yours. It is a war of agression - US agression on Iraq, not Iraqi agression on the US.
This much is so obvious ... |
but Saddam never gave up his war. He never gave up trying to conquer the gulf , he never gave up supporting terror, he never gave up persecuting his minorities, he never gave up inciting violence he never he never gave up shooting at US planes.And since he was not in compliance he never gave up trying to get WMD. Saddam never gave up his war.
Bathists, Khomenist and those who follow Bin Laden and all the similar types don't have a right to their war. That is what you fail to understand. You seem to think their war is legitimate. It isn't and neither are they. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
What do you mean he admits it is not real?
He said that is what he heard or read and I have no reason to doubt him. |
He doesn't saw WHERE he heard or read it, though.
You made a claim that useful intel had been obtained at Gitmo - you said that, and no one forced you to, and when I asked for a link with some specifics, this is ALL you can come up with, a comment made in a blog that that the writer says himself he cannot quantify or confirm.
Yet you come here and present this rumour as if it were science.
And it is the likes of someone like you that I have to justify my credentials and prove by love for our country? It is, as they say, to laugh. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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He doesn't saw WHERE he heard or read it, though. |
no but I have no reason to doubt him.
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| You made a claim that useful intel had been obtained at Gitmo - you said that, and no one forced you to, and when I asked for a link with some specifics, this is ALL you can come up with, a comment made in a blog that that the writer says himself he cannot quantify or confirm. |
Again I have no reason to believe that he is not telling the truth.
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| Yet you come here and present this rumour as if it were science. |
See above. Maybe I will write him for his source.
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| And it is the likes of someone like you that I have to justify my credentials and prove by love for our country? It is, as they say, to laugh |
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I don't see how anyone who is worried that that the US is too powerful and who thinks that any gain is a strategic gain that must be returned and who condemns the US for its actions but refuses to condemn the insurgents or other actors for theirs , can say that they are pro US. |
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