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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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 Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| going for my first big 8 dont mind me! |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Can I refrain from mentioning the contradiction? No, I cannot. First, the fellow says that the president should do what is best for the country, not what is popular - then he cites a 51% margin as proof of popularity.
Well 51% is hardly proof of popularity, and well, he already said it's not important ... I guess one could call it covering all the bases ...
Still. Ya gotta wonder about someone with a brain like that ... |
No just saying that alot of Americans did trust Bush and he would be making a pretty bold statment calling most Ameircans fools.
but the president should do what he thinks is best for the nation, not what is popular.
Bob go tell us all how the Madrid bombing was part of a conflict between Spain and Morroco. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Bob go tell us all how the Madrid bombing was part of a conflict between Spain and Morroco. |
Huh? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| you never said such a thing? |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| you never said such a thing? |
Said what? What's the connection to the current discussion? The Spain bombing? We still don't know for sure who did that or all the motives behind it because the prime suspects were incinerated while trying to be captured ... but what does it have to do with a grieving father who has changed his mind about supporting the war in Iraq?
Really hard to follow your leaps of logic soimetimes ... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| you never said such a thing? |
Said what? What's the connection to the current discussion? The Spain bombing? We still don't know for sure who did that or all the motives behind it because the prime suspects were incinerated while trying to be captured ... but what does it have to do with a grieving father who has changed his mind about supporting the war in Iraq?
Really hard to follow your leaps of logic soimetimes ... |
there is no one in the world other than you who suggested that it was part of a dispute between Spain and Morroco. It shows the way you approach the war on terror and other issues, which is to deny them. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| there is no one in the world other than you who suggested that it was part of a dispute between Spain and Morroco. It shows the way you approach the war on terror and other issues, which is to deny them. |
That's a very silly thing to say in the context of this thread ... oh, but I forgot - you were nere at all intersted in the context of this thread.
It was just one more way to get after The Bobster. Like, I should care.
This discussion- the actual topic of the thread - relates to a very human man who has lost a son, and hopes that other parents will not lose theirs for no good reson ... odd, how you don't want to talk about that. You'd rather talk about me.
I let this debate go on between the two of us for only one reason, the one I said earlier, to see what sort of idiocy yuo would come up with - and as mentioned before, you did not disapoint. You seldom do, in that regard., |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, I'll take a stab at responding to the OP.
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| He never considered himself an activist. He laughs at the notion. ''Isn't that ironic?" Hart said. ''I mean, I'm no pacifist, that's for certain, but this is not right. Where we're at today is not right. It's not right for America. It's not right for the troops. It's not right for the Iraqis." |
With all due respect for the man, I don't entirely agree with his assessment of the situation. I believe that liberating Iraq from Saddam was the right thing to do. The entire problem was the convuluted justifications and more pressingly, not sending enough troops to do the job. War against Saddam, and even a post-war occupation, is not what is wrong. What is wrong is the current tactics.
I admire this man for doing what he could to change the tactics. Lobbying to get the troops the right body armor is better than anything I've ever done for the war effort, and so I give him props. He's done more for the war effort than most stalwart Republicans, so of course nobody in their right mind would call him un-American, but that doesn't make him right about everything.
Why is the occupation still important? Because America has staked the future of Middle East policy on the future of Iraq. Its important that America stays long enough (but not too long) to make sure that Iraq has a reasonable chance of becoming a prosperous state again. And no, I'm not interested in Rummie shaking hands with Saddam or previous administrations' willingness to co-operate with him to deal with other threats. I will admit that there have been grave problems and hypocracies in America's Iraq policy, but I also believe that when America followed international law to the letter in Desert Storm, they sold out a lot of good Kurds and Shi'a who may have been ready to change that country for the better.
Am I way too optimistic? Definitely. But I feel I have to be because of the opposition. The most dangerous opposition being the Jihadists and foreign fighters in Iraq, who have exported suicide bombing to that country (a far more destructive and hateful legacy than I think cluster bombs and lesser transgressions of international law are). Al-Zarqawi's legacy in Iraq is a grim one, so grim that the Sunnis have gotten past their suspicion of the US enough to at least accept that the active suiciding, bomb-laying part of the insurgency is the worst thing in Iraq right now. I think that a withdrawal of US forces now, in the wake of this, this opposition, would not just be morally unjustifiable, but strategically disasterous. To abandon the field to allies of Bin Laden, former Ba'athists, and other assorted thugs would have foreign policy repercussions for years.
So do I think what we're doing is right? Not totally and not unconditionally, but I believe immediate withdrawal would be wrong. |
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