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Teufelswacht
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right
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 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:45 pm Post subject: Gitmo. It just keeps getting worse. |
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I'm sorry, some of this stuff is just getting silly. It's amazing what is coinsidered "torture" nowadays. Also, not to be outdone by Newsweek, their arch competitor TIME has published this "horrifying" account of abuse. Isn't funny how this makes the news but the truly horrific tortures going on around the world don't even register as a "blip" on the international media radar. If you want to desensitize the public to the problems at Gitmo and Iraq, just keep publishing stories like this ....Jeez.
Note: Isn't it funny how Cheney's first name was "beeped" by Dave's?
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Guantanamo guards tortured prisoner with music
By Rupert Cornwell in Washington
13 June 2005
A top al-Qa'ida suspect in Guantanamo Bay was stripped, forced to bark like a dog, and subjected to the music of Christina Aguilera, it emerged as debate intensified in the US capital over the future of the detention camp in Cuba.
The latest disclosures come in a prison log of the treatment of Mohammad al-Kahtani, a Saudi citizen whom many US investigators believe was the missing "20th hijacker" of 11 September 2001. The document, extracts of which appear in [i]the new issue of Time magazine[/i], covers a 50 day spell in 2002-03 - a period when additional interrogation techniques were approved by Donald Rumsfeld, the Defence Secretary.
They included a "sissy slap" with an inflated latex glove, ordering Mr Kahtani to "bark to elevate his social status up to that of a dog," and rejecting a request that he be allowed to pray. On other occasions, water was poured on his head and Aguilera music was played to keep him awake in midnight sessions.
Mr Kahtani was questioned in a room decorated with pictures of 11 September victims. He was made to urinate in his underpants, and at other times to wear pictures of scantily clad women around his neck. At one point, according to the log, he asked to commit suicide.
A Pentagon official was quoted by the magazine as saying that the log was "the kind of document that was never meant to leave Gitmo."
It is also a document that will only intensify foreign criticism of the prison at the US base, recently described by Amnesty International as a "Gulag of our times".
The former US president Jimmy Carter has urged it to be closed, and senior Democratic lawmakers have called it a "recruiting tool" for international terrorism.
So sensitive has the issue become that a report in Newsweek magazine last month claiming that a Koran had been flushed down a lavatory at the base led to anti-American riots in Pakistan in which dozens of people were killed.
Newsweek later retracted that specific report, but a Pentagon investigation has acknowledged other instances in which the holy book of Islam was desecrated by guards and interrogators at the camp.
The White House appears split on the question. But Duncan Hunter, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said that some members of the Bush administration favoured closing the camp. "They're divided," Mr Hunter said. "Some members of the White House have come to the conclusion that the legend is different than the fact."
But Vice-President Dick Cheney said in an interview to be shown today that there was "no plan to close" the prison, and Mr Rumsfeld insisted that information extracted from prisoners had saved American lives.
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Ya know, speaking about barking like a dog, I had this girlfriend one time that.....uh, never mind.
I was wondering, since I was forced to bark like a dog sometimes when I went through basic military training, can I sue the U.S. government for my "trauma"? I mean, hey, since they called me "maggot", forced me to stay up late on school nights, and actually clean the bathrooms we were using I have come to the inescapable conclusion that I AM A VICTIM OF TORTURE! I'm sorry, no disrespect intended, I just think this is starting to get silly.
Last edited by Teufelswacht on Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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Teufelswacht
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right
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| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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True. In the Independent article they say it was reported by TIME magazine. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Well, generally there are two reasons why we begin to see a flurry of appropriate plus not-so-appropriate articles like we've been seeing about torture. The first possibility would be that they're grasping at straws and getting desperate. The other possiblity is that they've hit upon something real and everybody's jumping in on the action. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sorry, some of this stuff is just getting silly. It's amazing what is coinsidered "torture" nowadays. Also, not to be outdone by Newsweek, their arch competitor TIME has published this "horrifying" account of abuse. Isn't funny how this makes the news but the truly horrific tortures going on around the world don't even register as a "blip" on the international media radar. If you want to desensitize the public to the problems at Gitmo and Iraq, just keep publishing stories like this ....Jeez. |
The difference is that USA has, not without justification, establsihed that its system of democracy, freedom and human rights is the cirterion by which all others shall be judged and perhaps found wanting.
When another country, with lower standards than USA uses such techniques, it is indeed unjust.
But when the USA, whose system is the cirterion by which others are judged, indulges in the same unjust practices, they will be called to task: and quite rightly so.
"We don't do it as much as XX does" is no defence. Ker-iste, the whole rationale now propounded for the invasion of Iraq is lack of respect for human rights. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Gitmo. It just keeps getting worse. |
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| Teufelswacht wrote: |
I was wondering, since I was forced to bark like a dog sometimes when I went through basic military training, can I sue the U.S. government for my "trauma"? I mean, hey, since they called me "maggot", forced me to stay up late on school nights, and actually clean the bathrooms we were using I have come to the inescapable conclusion that I AM A VICTIM OF TORTURE! I'm sorry, no disrespect intended, I just think this is starting to get silly. |
Not that this appeals to my prurient interests or anything, Tueffie, but you didn't mention whether they forceably stripped you naked against your wishes during basic as they did this suspect. |
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Teufelswacht
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm sorry, some of this stuff is just getting silly. It's amazing what is coinsidered "torture" nowadays. Also, not to be outdone by Newsweek, their arch competitor TIME has published this "horrifying" account of abuse. Isn't funny how this makes the news but the truly horrific tortures going on around the world don't even register as a "blip" on the international media radar. If you want to desensitize the public to the problems at Gitmo and Iraq, just keep publishing stories like this ....Jeez. |
The difference is that USA has, not without justification, establsihed that its system of democracy, freedom and human rights is the cirterion by which all others shall be judged and perhaps found wanting.
When another country, with lower standards than USA uses such techniques, it is indeed unjust.
But when the USA, whose system is the cirterion by which others are judged, indulges in the same unjust practices, they will be called to task: and quite rightly so.
"We don't do it as much as XX does" is no defence. Ker-iste, the whole rationale now propounded for the invasion of Iraq is lack of respect for human rights. |
I understand what you are saying. My point is that when you start listing anything and everything as "torture" you cheapen the meaning and desensitize those who read reports of it in the international press. My additional point is that with all the focus on Gitmo, Iraq, etc., the other atrocities around the world are not being reported as aggressively as they should be.
I am not saying the U.S. should get a pass. I am saying that torture, where ever it happens, should be reported and condemned. And, I'm sorry, it is too easy - and popular, because of its relative openess to find out information about the U.S. activities, and this makes the U.S. an easy target of criticism.
I would like to see the mainstream press start taking the road less traveled and really expose other atrocities in other parts of the world - continuously and in-depth.
Someone once said the first death in war is truth. I say, while true, it is quickly followed by the first birth of war - hypocrisy. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:02 am Post subject: ... |
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| I'm not really clear on how this is an example of hypocrisy. |
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JacktheCat
Joined: 08 May 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Gitmo. It just keeps getting worse. |
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[quote="Teufelswacht"]
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... and subjected to the music of Christina Aguilera,
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If that doesn't count as torture, I don't know what does. |
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Teufelswacht
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:21 am Post subject: Re: Gitmo. It just keeps getting worse. |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| Teufelswacht wrote: |
I was wondering, since I was forced to bark like a dog sometimes when I went through basic military training, can I sue the U.S. government for my "trauma"? I mean, hey, since they called me "maggot", forced me to stay up late on school nights, and actually clean the bathrooms we were using I have come to the inescapable conclusion that I AM A VICTIM OF TORTURE! I'm sorry, no disrespect intended, I just think this is starting to get silly. |
Not that this appeals to my prurient interests or anything, Tueffie, but you didn't mention whether they forceably stripped you naked against your wishes during basic as they did this suspect. |
Your true colors are showing R.S.!!!!
Ooooh, the "victim" had his "tighty-whitey's" taken off or was it boxers?
Anyway, as one who has been through some of the training offered by the U.S. military, I can answer yes, I had to run around outside, in winter, for extended periods of time in the snow, unclothed and in full view of persons of the opposite sex - while they pointed and laughed (Hey, it WAS winter, okay!!!). I had to stand through group (25+ persons in a room) "genital inspections." (Are you getting excited?)
I have gone unfed for days while going through training. I have had to "beg" for food by barking like a dog and "sincerely" ask for permission to use the bathroom.
I have been through several weeks of SERE training - where they put you into a POW camp and you are subjected to some fun activities. Hey, how about being stripped naked and locked in a freezer for a couple of days! Fun, fun, fun. How about being kicked, punched, forced to urinate and defecate in your pants? How about being forced to chew and swallow live lizards. How about not being allowed to sleep for 72 hours, etc.. This is/was military training. In my evaluation, the instructors told me I would have been executed during my time in the POW camp because of my "unrepentent and uncooperative" attitude. How's that for a report card! Sometime in the future I'll bore you with the story of how I got beat so bad that when I returned from training, my wife didn't even recognize me at first.
I'm sorry, but the activities described in the article cheapen the issue of torture overall.
But, alas, I wasn't subjected to Christina Aquilera (sp?). Now THAT is cruel!!! |
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Teufelswacht
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:24 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| I'm not really clear on how this is an example of hypocrisy. |
I am speaking generally. I am not speaking to this issue specifically. Sorry if I was unclear. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:28 am Post subject: |
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It's true that what's going down in Gitmo wouldn't exactly compare to Soviet gulags, but indefinite detentions without trial is a little worrisome (I wouldn't mind if they set a period, even if it were in months, by which some evidence, even if it weren't as rigorous, had to be produced).
Now it's the stuff we don't hear about that worries me, and I'm not talking about Gitmo, I'm talking about Base X run by the CIA in Afghanistan. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Now it's the stuff we don't hear about that worries me, and I'm not talking about Gitmo, I'm talking about Base X run by the CIA in Afghanistan. |
Wow yah ... must be pretty secret alright. Googled it & nothing came up 
Base X anyone ???
( btw - this reminds me, apparently the Bush crime syndicate's major investments aren't in OIL or even banking ... but ... yep ... you guessed it ... Private 4 profit PRISONS )
Go figure eh ??? 
http://www.prisonplanet.com |
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Teufelswacht
Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Location: Land Of The Not Quite Right
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Now it's the stuff we don't hear about that worries me, and I'm not talking about Gitmo, I'm talking about Base X run by the CIA in Afghanistan. |
Wow yah ... must be pretty secret alright. Googled it & nothing came up
Base X anyone ???
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Try a search on the term "Salt Pit" if this doesn't work add "Afghanistan". |
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