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Guri Guy
Joined: 07 Sep 2003
Location: Bamboo Island
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 Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| It belongs in current events. |
Why exactly does it belong in current events only? I generally only read the general discussion board. It is certainly appropriate there. It affects me since I see soldiers everyday. Now I am aware that some of them could go "postal". Wonderful.  Locking Real Reality's thread serves what purpose? |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Did you notice that my post was first? Is not the general rule that the post that is first is the post that remains unlocked?
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:56 am
Post subject: Military shooting spree leaves eight soldiers dead
VanIslander wrote,
"Threads about Koreans lives themselves are interesting but not directly relevant to our lives RR."
Are your students Korean? Are your students relevant to you? Are some members of Dave's ESL Cafe Korean? Do some teachers teach Korean soldiers? |
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Smee
Joined: 24 Dec 2004
Location: Jeollanam-do
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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From the Korea Times:
Shooting Spree Shocks Nation
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``The government should approach Korea��s current military system, which is based on conscription, with principles that are legally and morally more sound,�� said Hwang Hak-soo, an attorney for the Catholic Human Rights Committee.
``Otherwise, the military, which has a low level of awareness about human rights issues compared to the rest of the society, will continue to create problems violent in nature,�� he said.
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``People think the army is not as tough as it was years back, but many of today��s soldiers have anger management issues, and that explains yesterday��s incident,�� said the army officer who served as the quadroon leader of the frontline troop.
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http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200506/kt2005061920502511950.htm |
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rok_the-boat
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Don't forget how this story unfolded. I first saw it on foreign news and foreign internet media before the Korean. And the first reports in the Korean media said the guy was mentally ill whereas the foreign emphasised bullying from the outset, which means the Korean media must have known yet were playing it down at first. In fact, today's news calls it a collapse of discipline ... you don't say
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nation/200506/kt2005061920502511950.htm
The following one is more honest:
http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2005/06/20/200506200027.asp
But this phrase puzzles me:
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| North Korean forces on the other side of the tense military demarcation line that separates the two Koreas made no response to the incident. |
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Cthulhu
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I found this bit from the Chosun Ilbo interesting:
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| Some blame the incident on a climate where brutal hazing of new recruits continues to be tolerated, even though many among the new generation of recruits, as only sons with an indulgent upbringing, cannot cope with verbal abuse, let alone beatings. |
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200506/200506190001.html
Classic Ilbo, but there might be something to that. These kids are coming from an environment where they feel more entitled than previous generations. Then they get a rude awakening in the military. And if these kinds of abuses are still a problem now, how much worse they were it in the past? In the rougher and spartan times of the dictatorships one wonders how much more prevalent were the horrors that had to be accepted and internalized by recruits. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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But this phrase puzzles me:
Quote:
North Korean forces on the other side of the tense military demarcation line that separates the two Koreas made no response to the incident.
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I think it's because of the proximity of the forces, any time explosions occur or shots are fired, the other side gets highly nervous.
If I'm standing guard at 2:30 in the morning and a grenade goes off near me and 40 shots are fired, I might well start shooting at anything that moves. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Real Reality wrote: |
Did you notice that my post was first? Is not the general rule that the post that is first is the post that remains unlocked?
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:56 am
Post subject: Military shooting spree leaves eight soldiers dead
VanIslander wrote,
"Threads about Koreans lives themselves are interesting but not directly relevant to our lives RR."
Are your students Korean? Are your students relevant to you? Are some members of Dave's ESL Cafe Korean? Do some teachers teach Korean soldiers? |
There is only one relevant question here:
RR, why do you have such a burning compulsive obsessive need to be the first person to post news here? |
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Cthulhu
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| Real Reality wrote: |
Did you notice that my post was first? Is not the general rule that the post that is first is the post that remains unlocked?
Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 12:56 am
Post subject: Military shooting spree leaves eight soldiers dead
VanIslander wrote,
"Threads about Koreans lives themselves are interesting but not directly relevant to our lives RR."
Are your students Korean? Are your students relevant to you? Are some members of Dave's ESL Cafe Korean? Do some teachers teach Korean soldiers? |
There is only one relevant question here:
RR, why do you have such a burning compulsive obsessive need to be the first person to post news here? |
Perhaps the medium is the message?  |
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trigger123
Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Location: TALKING TO STRANGERS, IN A BETTER PLACE
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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personally, i feel this article goes a long way to explaining a lot about morale in the South Korean armed forces,
http://english.chosun.com/w21data/html/news/200506/200506190026.html
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| The incidents took place fundamentally because the enlisted men have no idea what they are sacrificing their youth for and why on earth they should forgo a good night��s sleep to stand sentry duty. |
just what are they doing there? on the one hand the south korean government still courts pyongyang, granting kim jong-il far too much leeway in the nuclear dispute and promoting tokenistic overtures such as visits to Gumgangsan and inter-korean parties. but these gestures exist between two countries still at war.
a lack of identity or direction, too many angry young men in an drawn-out conflict, boredom, guns, a heirarchy that promotes bullying.... it doesn't take a psychologist to see the sad and bloody conclusions that have happened and will continue to happen.
i feel this impasse has existed too long. pyongyang should no longer be appeased. a government that starves its people, denies human rights and gathers enough nuclear material to obliterate its neighbours shold no longer be a friend. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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Steady on, Trigger. People can get themselves deported by making less sense than you just did. Ultimately, I suspect many will direct their agony and grief over this incident at the US. I mean, why should this be any different than all the rest?
And I had a chuckle at rok_the-boat's take:
In fact, today's news calls it a collapse of discipline ... you don't say.
Yeah, that gunfire and grenades you hear going off? That's nothing but a little discipline collapsing, that's all. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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