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SK Solidier goes on killing rampage at the DMZ
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Paddycakes



Joined: 05 May 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I think OTH was really on to something with his Rim Job theory...

These two girls came down to the local High School from the Army Recruiting Center to scout out new recruits...

While they were successful in recruiting a lot of new males, they weren't so lucky with the females...

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Holyjoe



Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: Away for a cuppa

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if anyone is watching the MBC news right now, but they have just shown a virtual reality simulation of the entire event - think Medal of Honour with the soldier in question hurling grenades around and gunning down the other soldiers.

I thought that was in bad taste myself...
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
a virtual reality simulation of the entire event



Just wait for the real reality simulation where the accused is taken back to the scene to re-enact the crime. It's standard practice.
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VanIslander



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Yeah, "discipline," that's it.

My director thought so. When he first heard of this case he said he thinks young people nowadays have "no patience" (his words) and have softer upbringings, yet are conscripted into a military they aren't suited for (my Korean director is 37 years old but sees a huge difference between guys he grew up with and the present generation of computer-tranced sluggards and coddled mama's boys (my words, summarizing his statements).
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rok_the-boat



Joined: 24 Jan 2004

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have long since realised that a positive attitude to your military service in Korea goes a long way in advancing your career in Korea. Accordingly, I have often told my students to learn Taekwondo or Hapkido before entering the military, i.e. be prepared - get tough - try to develop a positive attitude about the whole thing. Not sure if they listened though ...
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Wrench



Joined: 07 Apr 2005

PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
On the other hand wrote:
Is it really necessary to beat recruits and force them to eat fecal matter in order to build an effective armed forces? Was it really blood, sweat, toil, and the occasional rim job that freed Europe from the clutches of fascism?


First question: No. This is extremely dysfunctional behavior, from the perspective of having served in a professional rather than conscripted armed forces. This would never fly in the U.S.

Second question: No. It was superior supply and logistics. Add up the economic might of the U.S.-U.K-Russian alliance and pit that against the Axis, plus remember that Hitler was a bad commander-in-chief and decided he'd like to fight Russians and British at the same time when he really didn't have to, and the outcome is inevitable.

Side note: Seem to recall reading in Herodotus references to the Spartan or Athenian Army keeping boys around for sexual favors in wartime. Can't recall which, maybe both. Homosexuality in military life is apparently not new.


Its no secret Greek armies were extremly homosexual. Two lovers made better soldiers because they were defending each others lives.
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scarneck



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrench wrote:
Gopher wrote:
On the other hand wrote:
Is it really necessary to beat recruits and force them to eat fecal matter in order to build an effective armed forces? Was it really blood, sweat, toil, and the occasional rim job that freed Europe from the clutches of fascism?


First question: No. This is extremely dysfunctional behavior, from the perspective of having served in a professional rather than conscripted armed forces. This would never fly in the U.S.

Second question: No. It was superior supply and logistics. Add up the economic might of the U.S.-U.K-Russian alliance and pit that against the Axis, plus remember that Hitler was a bad commander-in-chief and decided he'd like to fight Russians and British at the same time when he really didn't have to, and the outcome is inevitable.

Side note: Seem to recall reading in Herodotus references to the Spartan or Athenian Army keeping boys around for sexual favors in wartime. Can't recall which, maybe both. Homosexuality in military life is apparently not new.


Its no secret Greek armies were extremly homosexual. Two lovers made better soldiers because they were defending each others lives.



The motto of the Greek army is "Never leave your buddy's behind".
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scarneck



Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trigger123 wrote:
ok, maybe i wasn't too clear.
i am saddened by the deaths and find it hard to stomach an apology from a minister without some action.
correct me if i'm wrong, but the unique set of circumstances the south korean troops find themselves in is likely cause them psychological traumas.
they are conscripted, (to an army currently numbering over 600,000), in massive numbers to defend their country. but the country they defend against is appeased, upheld and arguably promoted by their own government. and there they are, day after day, patrol after patrol, watching an 'enemy' that they are no doubt distantly related to, that looks like them, that speaks their language.
how low can the morale of an average conscript be?
now add institutionalised bullying, mind-numbing boredom, access to automatic weapons and the fact that these men are just boys, taken from their lives for 2 years. it is surprising that this type of terrible incident does not happen more frequently.
i'm arguing that something should change. that the military should take bullying and hazing and whatever else goes on in gangwondo and gyeonggido seriously. It is not as rite of passage as the Chosun Ilbo implies. it should also consider the place of military service in a modern korea.
and i'm arguing that the government should examine evaluate its armed forces strategy, particularly if the americans reduce their prescence, and its appeasment policies to pyongyang.


Now, take most of what Trigger said and put a twist on it from a U.S. Soldier's perspective. Wonder why the MP blotter has so many assault entries? Same level of frustration. These Soldiers are serving in an ungrateful country that is constantly appeasing the 'enemy'. Keeping your enemy fat and full of fuel isn't a good strategy. I'm amazed at the policy that USFK has about the 'buddy system'. If Soldiers are here to serve/protect this country (and US interests) why are they not safe to walk around alone? I'm all for the draw down of U.S. Forces here on the penninsula. There is a large element of hypocrasy in the leadership of USFK that frustrates the masses because they see it everyday. That's the topic of another thread completely.
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trigger123 wrote:
ok, maybe i wasn't too clear.

No, Trigger, you were quite clear. What I meant by my earlier post was that you were making just the sort of logical sense that isn't looked upon very favourably by the current South Korean regime.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is from yesterday's Chosun Ilbo. I'm not usually into conspiracy theories, but there does sound like there was something more than just a guy going postal.

Unanswered Questions in DMZ Killing Spree

Many unanswered questions remain after the Army announced the results of its investigation into Sunday morning��s killing spree at a guard post in the DMZ in Yeoncheon that left eight soldiers dead and wounded two. These are the main areas of concern.
��According to the Army announcement, 26 soldiers were sleeping in the barracks when 22-year-old private Kim Dong-min threw his grenade. Six were killed when it exploded while two later died of gunshots outside the barracks. Given the confined space, the power of the grenade and the wild firing of some 40 rounds, some say the fatalities are surprisingly low.
�� With the exception of the platoon leader, who was a captain, the other seven killed were all corporals. While corporals made up the highest number of men of any rank at the post -- 14 -- there were also eight first-class privates, two sergeants and two second-class privates. If the killer used a grenade and fired at random, it��s hard to understand why only those of a specific rank died.
�� The Army says verbal abuse alone goaded Kim into running amok, while there had been no beatings or other physical cruelty. Some say it must have taken much more horrific acts to set the killer off.
�� Some suspect the low casualty figure from the grenade blast was due to the fact that most of the men were out watching the World Youth Football Championships, which was on until 1:00 a.m. There are also rumors on the Internet that since the new and old platoon leaders were on duty together, perhaps there was a drinking party after the football to send off the old platoon leader.
��The killer spent 13 minutes moving from barracks to lounge to situation room lobbing a grenade and firing wildly. While 10 were killed or wounded in the process, the 20 others including the new platoon leader and three men on duty at the guard post survived unharmed. Why were they unable to subdue Kim?
��How could Private Kim Dong-min, who just committed such a terrible crime, return to the guard post as if nothing happened? The Army explains that he was left to return to the guard post because the division that commanded the post was in a state of confusion, unsure whether the incident was a North Korean attack or came from within the unit itself. Many Army officials are surprised at Kim��s composure.
�� Why were no other units sent? In an emergency at a guard post, a division search party is supposed to head to the post to deal with the situation, but this did not happen. The incident was reported to the commanding unit at 2:39, when it was just starting, as a North Korean attack, and the regiment and division formed crisis management teams and alerted all men at all frontline guard posts. But when it emerged that it was not an enemy attack, no search party was sent.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2005 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And this one does not really answer any questions.

DMZ Killing Spree 'Was Premeditated'

A private who killed eight of his fellow soldiers in a bloody Sunday-morning rampage at a front-line guard post in Yeoncheon, Gyeonggi Province apparently planned the killing spree two days earlier, investigators said Monday. Meanwhile, it has emerged that the attack caused panic among the platoon and the division it was a part of, who were unsure whether it was an act of North Korean aggression.
<br>
Brig. Gen. Park Cheol-su, of the Army's investigation team said 22-year-old private Kim Dong-min had suffered no beatings or other physical abuse but endured frequent insults and obscenities from a senior fellow soldier, so he decided to kill his tormentor. An investigator said Kim told comrades on several occasions that he wanted to "turn the platoon on its head" and kill all of them with grenades and guns. He said the other soldiers thought Kim was joking and did not report the comments.
<br>
In the course of the investigation, the Army also found other lapses in discipline at the post, including a failure by the commander to ensure proper distribution and return of ammunition. It said senior officers would be severely punished. The Army is also considering posthumous promotions for the eight soldiers who were killed. It has replaced personnel manning the guard post ahead of schedule as well.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One has to wonder where those Korean netizens are that are so quick off the trigger to condem illegal teachers, yet don't seem to be making demands for the armed forces to change.
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