Korean Job Discussion Forums

[KorJen]

Well its been 2 months and for the most part I am enjoying this job, but the one problem i have is with discipline. I am teaching in a public school and the students I teach are just horrendus, they give me the finger, swear at me in Korean, and scream in my ears. I have tried everything to make then straighten up, but there doesnt seem to be anything that works (and these are grade 1 and 2 students). I try to talk to my co-teacher but her english is so terrible she doenst understand me either, and everytime I ask her to talk to the students, she pulls this nice, sweet motherly tone, which does nothing.
Any idea on how I can fix this. I dont think I can endure another 10 months of disrespect~!

[peppermint]

Go for positiive reinforcement. My classroom runs mostly smoothly on a sticker system. My classes have assigned seating, so each group of desks is a team. Everytime a team wins a game, everyone does their homework, or remembers to clean up after class, that team gets a sticker. When they get five stickers as a team, each kid gets a candy.

Of course, when a team doesn't do their homework, or is really noisy in class, they can lose a sticker too.

It takes a little while for the kids to understand but it works really well.

[fidel]

No way!
Time to get tough. You're the teacher and if you can't discipline your class you have no right being there. Out of control students can't be tolerated.

I assume you are talking elementary school here. You have sadly lost them to the dark side of the force and need to pull them back in. It's not going to be easy but you are going to have to become the 'bad teacher' for a while.

First find out what the discipline rules are then use them. If the Korean teachers throw them out of class so should you. If they can phone the parents, then so should you (through a trusted intermediary of course).
If they can beat them with clubs, well....I'll leave that up to you to decide. Find out who the diciplinary teacher is (there is always one bad ass) and send the kids to him/her.

Get a third party to talk to your co-teacher and tell her in no certain words that you are disgusted with her inaction to help control the students and that if it continues you will have to approach the principal with a written complaint.

Have a teacher who can understand your concerns enter your classroom and lay down the law.


Personally I'd just isolate the worst offenders and make an example of them.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

Have a meeting with the principals, ask what happens when kids finger and swear at Korean teachers, and explain that if students continue to finger you and swear at you you're going to quit. Isn't there anyone at the school who speaks English well enough to explain your problems?

On another note, I was visiting several high schools today for job interviews. Walking along the corridors getting the tour I was stunned by students stopping to bow to us. I instictively bowed back, as I do whenever a Korean bows to me, then realised that if I'm a potential future authority figure there I'm not actually supposed to do that, lol.

At any rate, you've a difficult age group to manage - I was never able to control a hogwan class of this age if its size was more than 6-7 pupils for very long, though anyone that age who fingered me would have been hauled out of the class immediately getting a right telling off and being subjected to every punishment I could think of. I've never seen a kid go home in a more foul mood than a third grader who made the mistake of throwing his shoe at me.

[Freezer Burn]

You defanitely need the supprt of the school, the students usually look at english class as being the fun class where you can talk to your friends and get the waegokin angry.
Positive reinforcement works if they care enough about the prize, and you dont want to become known as candy teacher or prize teacher, because the moment you dont have the prize the revert back to the little Damiens they were.
I agree with Fidel, get tough, dont be their friend and find the trouble makers and make examples of them, show them that you are serious and you wont take this behaviour from them.
make them write lines, they hate this because there wrists are small and they get tired quickly, and its a good way to get them writting.

[Grotto]

Some of the methods I use are:

1. Stop what I am doing, look at my co-teacher and wait for them to do something.....I can wait all period.

2. Make offenders kneel on the floor at the front of the class with their hands in the air.

3. GET OUT!....throw the offenders out in the hallway..in a public school the principal or VP will want to know why.

As for screaming in your ear, swearing at you or giving you the finger: grab the offender by the ear and march them down to the VP. If it happens again march them to the principal.

If you have put up with this for two months then you need to work on your classroom management skills.

3 rules for classroom management.

1. Be firm(if they know the rules and know you wont back down they will respect that)

2. Be fair(punishment should match the crime)

3. Be fast(consequences should be immediate)

If you have to stop the class to take the matter to the VP or Principal so be it, the only one who will catch flak will be your co-teacher.

[Wrench]

Don't forget to be consitent. Always deal out the same punishment and don't ever fall for their little whimpering tricks.

I teach Kindergarten and I almost have them act like north american students. They raise their hands when they want something. Talking gets you in the corner if you loose all your stars and if you don't finish you can't leave. Also to be dismissed you have to pick up garbage and then stand by your chair quietly. Unfortunatly I am usualy a bit to tired by afternoon to actually do that with my older kids. They all know that if you don't remember at least one English sentence before you leave you will be walking home or you get no snack.

[teachingld2004]

One thing that I will not accept is disrespect.

Last year a kid gave me the finger, and I said "that's nice. Now lets see your other 3. (you know, 4 fingers and a thumb....) They thought that was funny, and that I was cool.

The second time the same kid gave me the finger I said "out". He said "No" I said OUT. He said no again, and by that time everyone was laughing. Well, they werent laughing when they all missed the bus casuse I kept them all after class.

When you punish the whole class, that is great cause then the other kids will not let the disrespectful ones act up.

I also had a co-teacher baby the kids, and talk so sweetly :"say you are sorry". Well, that did not work, so one day I walked out. Went straight to the director and said I will not go back into the class room if the kids did not behave.

Had a mother call once and ask why I went out of class, and had the korean teacher tell the mother. That was the last problem I had with that class.

Of corse it is hard when you have no support, or if the other teacher does not speak English. I would say YOU got out and have that other teacher teach.

Good luck,

[Dan The Chainsawman]

As mentioned above group process is a wonderful way to help a child see the sad errors of his ways.

Having worked in two different Wilderness programs that used group process as a rehabilitative tool I can vouch for the fact that its a potent tool.

Just remember, it can and will backfire on you if your not careful.

Group process, defined as the consquencing of the entire class for one kid's behavior, breeds resentment towards the kid, and towards the teacher. The resentment directed towards the troublemaker can go along way most of the time to resolve situations.

I worked with a group of boys in Alabama, and told them all the time if one of you screws up, you all get in trouble. This certainly did not endear myself to them, but after awhile turned out to be a workable method of control violent, and disrespectful behavior. In another group of boys I worked with down in Florida rioted on a regular basis when group process was utilized. Since group process did not work for them, they ended up getting themselves restrained a great deal of times, and lost a lot of their home visits. In that program they only had two days every 6 weeks, so it did not take to long for them to see the light.

As the teacher consquencing the entire class for one student, remember the likely hood of little timmy whiney brat getting his ass kicked after class increases the more the class is consquenced for his silly dong chiming behind. Now I seriously have long lost the ability to care if little timmy gets his face bruised up, but some other folks might be a bit annoyed, like mommy, and even little timmy motor mouth. Funny how the ones who got a good butt whupping that the truly deserved, always blamed it on someone else.

Group Process can be equally effective in a positive manner. Rewards for good behaviors work pretty well. Stickers or whatever floats your boat does give a kid a tangible immediate reward. Like all things be firm fair and consistent with rewarding. Becareful, as rewarding quite often comes across as bribing. ((Unless your paying the a couple of them in candy to bust up little timmy demon child, then best to remember to dole out the goodies very sparingly))

Good luck, and god bless

((ps and if you really need to resort to paying a couple of kids candy to bust up timmy crap mouth then you better think about getting a new job, cause that is whack))

[Alias]

[Free World]

[Snowkr]

Working in China under some of these same conditions with kids was just as frustrating. I would always threaten to not return to the class ever again and that seemed to work... especially with younger ones. Ironically, my teen classes were the better behaved group. They didn't want a new teacher.

Having the parents called also worked pretty well. Unfortunately, refusing to teach a student or and entire class is not allowed in China if the school is getting any kind of government support. Had I actually followed through with this, I might have lost my job altogether.

Does this law exist in Korea as well? Just curious...

[captain kirk]

I've heard forty percent of the job is classroom management. And that teachers who stay a short while, like a couple of years, aren't allowed the time to perfect this.

I've got a problem child to spread the gospel to this week. I was tempted to let him be the mustang, the life of the party, the fizzy poster child for joie de vivre, since class only meets twice a week on consecutive days leading to the weekend. Like in your public school, where you perhaps don't meet the same class everyday. It's tempting to be slack.

But in that case the students also know that they can go haywire since it's only twice a week, banking you'll be slack for that reason.

But this guy's becoming sort of unbearable where I get an imploding style headache from being surrounded by loud disarray. He's also a son of one of the employees of the boss.

And a leader in the class, kind of Dennis the Menancing in personality. He has an appointment with holding up a desk until his arms begin to shake.

[guangho]

Just throw the kid out. Don't let him try to sway you otherwise. Don't let him come back in.

[Yu_Bum_suk]

And one more thing - if you let this sh!t continue, you're only producing scores if not hundreds of little Korean brats who will continue to treat foreigners with the utmost disrespect and will have to be much more harshly corrected at some point in the future to set them straight.