Korean Job Discussion Forums

The Bobster · Joined: 15 Jan 2003

I found this in the comments section of an op-ed article in The Nation Online, an article describing the problems military recruiters are facing and the less-than-ethical means they are being forced to emply.

The guy who posted it just calls himself"Deadly Ernest," hence the thread title - I'm curious if any of us can argue with his math : he comes up with 9 million American males who ought to be putting their vote for bush to the test by putting on a uniform as well ... any ideas why he seems to be wrong?

The original article and the comment quoted here can be found at this link.

mithridates · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:19 am Post subject:

See, they're fighting in different ways, that's all:

endofthewor1d · Joined: 01 Apr 2003 Location: the end of the wor1d.

i think my stand on politics is clear by now. but if i were someone inclined to support bush or a war, i don't see why that would make me obligated to actually go to war. one of the freedoms i would be fighting for would be the freedom to not be in the military. if the draft were put back into place, maybe i'd have a delimma to think about. but as it stands, if there are people who are more willing to go to war than i am, why would i?

had i been alive in the 40's, i would have supported u.s. involvement in ww2, but i wouldn't have gone to war if i didn't have to.

joe_doufu · Joined: 09 May 2005 Location: Elsewhere

The pay sucks, the application procedure is a nightmare, the commitment is long-term and the majority of the job seems to be busywork and bureaucracy. I've considered it, and even applied to a branch of the military, but the closer I got the more I realized it wasn't the job for me.

mithridates · Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:42 am Post subject:

The Bobster · Joined: 15 Jan 2003

Manner of Speaking · Joined: 09 Jan 2003

guangho · Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 2:01 am Post subject:

Granted with a draft we would still have modern day Dubyas dodging it by getting stoned in the national guard, but it would give people something to think about.

P.S.: I know Dubya was in the National Guard and I'm not dissing them. It's just that in 1967-68 or so, most young men would have given their left nut to get a spot in the Guard.

Ya-ta Boy · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994

Caesar: To arms! To arms! Atilla is at the gates!
Licentious: Nah. The pay sucks. Let him do what he wants.
Caesar: Oh, OK.

PS: Thanks for taking the 'k' out of deadly.

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

In spiritually progressive Vedic culture, society is divided into four social orders (varnas) and four spiritual divisions (ashramas) meant to function harmoniously with the ultimate aim of pleasing God. I'll mercifully spare you a summary of the whole "varnashrama" system (I'm getting tired...) but suffice it to note that only a relatively small percentage of men (and practically no women) were qualified by their psycho-physical nature and quality of work to be part of the military, warrior class (ksatriyas). The other social classes stayed clear of the battlefield, and there were virtually no civilian casualties in times of war. The brahmana class (uh-oh, here I go again...) including intellectuals and priests functioned as the head of society, while the ksatriya warriors and administrators functioned as the arms, the vaisya business people, farmers and merchants functioned as the belly, and the sudra general laborer class functioned as the legs of the social body. Informed by this original, exemplary social model (before it degraded into the "caste system" fixed only by birth regardless of qualifications) I would expect that a general military draft would net a very large number of unsuitable misfits - as far as military combat is concerned. In the interest of fairness, though, I think there should be some period of mandatory service required of all young men and women. This would include various supporting roles in times of war and social services during times of peace ("turn, turn, turn..." - it's getting late...)

Ya-ta Boy · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994

Rteacher, are you arguing that a limited number of families have a genetic predisposition to be warriors and everyone else is lacking and should be exempt except for being cooks and desk jockeys?

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

Well, I suppose that some could be disk jockeys also - like that Kronewhatever guy whose adventures the movie "Good Morning Viet Nam!" was based on.
Somewhat more seriously though, I think that a lot of Viet Nam era draft dodgers were mainly just scared to death at the prospect of engaging in warfare, and many opted for self-induced drug pyschoses if they lost their college deferment or couldn't make it to Canada. Of course, in the Vedic system the natural warrior-types were identified at a young age and trained accordingly. Ksatrias had a strong tendency to control others for their own good, and they checked the business classes (who also tended to control others) from exploiting the common laborers.
(Somehow, a lot of American "warrior" types in the late 60s and 70s ended up with the Hell's Angels, Black Panthers, etc....) There apparently were many incidents of deliberate "friendly fire" and other crazyness during the Viet Nam era - which is partly (along with political considerations) why many top military officials don't want to deal with a general draft again - if it can be avoided.
Where was I during that period?... Well, I inherited my father's extremely flat feet, and I vaguely recall chanting - through a purplish haze of smoke swirling about distant strawberry fields :"Ho, Ho Ho Chi Min, the N-L-F is gonna win!" - which strangely turned out to be the case. - For the record, I've been drug (and alcohol) free since 1974...

Ya-ta Boy · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994

Either you or I toked a little too deeply and held it in a little too long, because I don't see how this relates to the original point of the thread, which is why people who support the war are not volunteering to fill the ranks now that the military needs them.

Rteacher · Joined: 23 May 2005 Location: Western MA, USA

...I guess if I didn't inhale I could have been elected El Presidente - or something. I didn't directly address the point of the thread because it's usually not my style to state the obvious. Indirectly, I made the point that only a relatively small percentage of men have the necessary courage and other qualities needed to effectively fill a military role. I should have elaborated that the Commander-In-Chief and top military brass ideally should also be fearless types willing to risk their lives in real combat. Since President Bush is not a qualified ksatria - and certainly not as brave as say... Sir Lancelot (to give a western example) it should come as no surprise that his war supporters include many unheroic types. Like the supplies of oil, the supplies of troops from "Bible Belt" states -where joining the military is a venerable family tradition - are beginning to dry up...Practical, politically viable alternatives to the draft are needed, I think, at least as a temperary fix. Unless forced to serve in the military, cowards and vocal phonies will not enlist... And when-and-if they are forced to join they won't be very good soldiers.

bucheon bum · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

I looked into the military, but am disqualified for health reasons- c'est la vie.