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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| Butterfly wrote: |
| I do not criticize the police for their actions, but to call the dead guy stupid I believe is way beneath you. It's just a horrible accident. You surprise me. |
Why is it you constantly criticise those who regale the board with the negative experiences in Korea, and often beat the "respect local customs" drum, but in the case of your own country beat the "empathise with the foreigner" drum in a time of great difficulty? Indeed, in all my time on this board I have never seen you empathise with foreigners in Korea. I am amazed that you engage in such a double standard ridden practice. If the numerous eye witness accounts prove correct, then I reiterate; he was a moron. |
I'm not criticizing anyone, not my country nor my country's police nor Jean Charles de Menezes. I'm saying it was a horrible accident and you were not there. He obviously felt a reason to run from these people, and people do irrational things when panicked and afraid. The rational thing to do would have been to stop. The police acted correctly I am sure and my sympathy goes out to those officers that decided to shoot him, but we can safely say that Jean Charles was very very frightened and acted irrationally. Not having ever been placed in the same situation, who the f are we to judge him?
I have indeed failed to find much in the way of sympathy for people who complain about the entire Korean nation based on a bad experience with a bus driver, yes, based on what they themselves have written. Jean Charles de Menezes can't write anything, because he's dead. In the rare instances where foreigners have died here however, especially in suspicious circumstances, I have remained silent. Largely, because like you in London, I wasn't there.
You speak ill of the dead, the innocent dead. |
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waggo
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: pusan baby!
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Apparently he might have overstayed his visa.....has a visitor to the UK ever actually respected our laws and understayed their visa? |
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junkmail
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:30 am Post subject: |
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What are you talking about?
Most people don't overstay. Plenty of Brits overstay in other countries with little consequence; Thailand for example.
I don't neccessarily think the police were wrong in the circumstances, but I do feel for the guy and his family. May he rest in peace.
As to those of you calling him a moron and the like.... Show some God damn respect! |
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Gunnery Sergeant Hartman
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| junkmail wrote: |
| As to those of you calling him a moron and the like.... Show some God damn respect! |
The fact that he's dead doesn't magically change the circumstances of what he may or may not have done before departing this green and pleasant earth. If what he did was stupid or moronic then there's no reason folk shouldn't call him for that, if indeed that's what happened.
This "show some respect" stuff is a load of nonsense really (as long as the criticism is justifiable). |
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junkmail
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:54 am Post subject: |
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Well if you can judge the man based on a situation you weren't even there for, in fact based a few news articles then fair enough. Imagine the family ever had to read this.
According to the testimonies of serving police officers and the military, thought process, eyesight and hearing often don't follow rational rules at times of high stress. Tunnel vision for example.
Some of you obviously need to experience this for yourselves. |
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Gunnery Sergeant Hartman
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| junkmail wrote: |
| Well if you can judge the man based on a situation you weren't even there for, in fact based a few news articles then fair enough. Imagine the family ever had to read this. |
I think I'm fairly safe in assuming his family won't ever really be searching out Dave's ESL Cafe to while away their internet browsing sessions.
That said, I never claimed I could judge anything about the man nor offered up any judgement of him. Nice try though.  |
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junkmail
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:11 am Post subject: |
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I never said you personally had. It was general and based on others doing exactly that.
Nice try yourself 
BTW. Do you actually have an opinion you'd like to share on the subject? |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:12 am Post subject: |
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| Gunnery Sergeant Hartman wrote: |
| (as long as the criticism is justifiable). |
Well, in this case I really don't think it is, since nobody here, was there. I mean, jeez, the man's mother isn't reading this pathetic little piece of sanctimonious cyberspace, so say whatever, but what goes around comes around.
However, let he who never made a wrong move, cast the first fucking stone.
I hope none of this shower never have to pay with their lives for making a bad decision.
Rest in Peace Jean Charles de Menezes and all the victims of the London bombings. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:33 am Post subject: |
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| Butterfly wrote: |
| Rest in Peace Jean Charles de Menezes and all the victims of the London bombings. |
Might be the wisest thing I'ver read about this anywhere on the internet, the notion that Mr Menezes just could possibly be considered the 53rd victim of the 7/7 Bombing Attack in London.
I've been reading about this for a few days now, both liberal and conservative sources, and not one person has come close to saying what you did (or came close to saying) just now.
Hats off to you. |
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rok_the-boat
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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All I can get from this mess is the following:
There is nothing wrong with a shoot-to-kill policy against terrorists. Just make sure to kill the 'bloody' terrorists, that's all. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| If the cops were so worried about his potential to explode a bomb on public transport, why did they let him take a bus to the tube station? |
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rok_the-boat
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Because the cops can't get their 'story' straight  |
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Infoseeker
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Lurking somewhere near Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 6:43 pm Post subject: Brazilian did not wear bulky jacket |
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Brazilian did not wear bulky jacket
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Jean Charles de Menezes, the Brazilian shot dead in the head, was not wearing a heavy jacket that might have concealed a bomb, and did not jump the ticket barrier when challenged by armed plainclothes police, his cousin said yesterday.
Speaking at a press conference after a meeting with the Metropolitan police, Vivien Figueiredo, 22, said that the first reports of how her 27-year-old cousin had come to be killed in mistake for a suicide bomber on Friday at Stockwell tube station were wrong.
"He used a travel card," she said. "He had no bulky jacket, he was wearing a jeans jacket...." |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1537613,00.html |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Brazilian did not wear bulky jacket |
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| Infoseeker wrote: |
Brazilian did not wear bulky jacket
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Jean Charles de Menezes, the Brazilian shot dead in the head, was not wearing a heavy jacket that might have concealed a bomb, and did not jump the ticket barrier when challenged by armed plainclothes police, his cousin said yesterday.
Speaking at a press conference after a meeting with the Metropolitan police, Vivien Figueiredo, 22, said that the first reports of how her 27-year-old cousin had come to be killed in mistake for a suicide bomber on Friday at Stockwell tube station were wrong.
"He used a travel card," she said. "He had no bulky jacket, he was wearing a jeans jacket...." |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1537613,00.html |
Well, then the family's statements conflict with every eyewitness account of the event.
As if he casually strolled through and used his travel card.
Yeah, right.
Hmmm... interesting these statements are suddenly appearing now that she has this help, "Flanked by the de Menezes family's solicitor, Gareth Peirce, and by Bianca Jagger, the anti-Iraq war campaigner...." |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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British Cops trained in Israel
"Operation Kratos": London Met Police Special Operations Unit "Shoot to Kill"
by Michel Chossudovsky
July 24, 2005
GlobalResearch.ca
The cold blooded murder of Jean Charles de Menezes, in the Stockwell underground was no accident. London Metropolitan Police had approved a policy of "shoot to kill":
" ... a controversial tactic deployed only in the most extreme circumstances but one police have been preparing to use for the last two weeks."
The shoot to kill policy was undertaken under the auspices of "Operation Kratos", named after the mythical Spartan hero. It was carried out by the London Metropolitan's elite SO19 firearms unit often referred to as the Blue Berets. The latter are described as the equivalent to the US SWAT teams, yet in this particular case, they were not wearing uniforms.
The training of the S019 marksmen was patterned on that of Israel. They had been briefed " ... by officers who had been to Israel to meet their counterparts there and pick up tips gleaned from the experience of dealing with Hamas bombers".
"During the Kratos briefings, the Met team were told that, contrary to their normal arms training, they should fire at the head rather than the chest. Although the chest is easier to hit, it is not as reliable in causing instant death, giving a bomber a chance to detonate his device ... " ( The Scottish Daily Record, 23 July, 2005 ).
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20050724&articleId=732 |
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