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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:25 am Post subject: |
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Terrorists are forcing a world war upon us, unavoidable by simple domino effect. Islam has now opened up battlefronts in most countries worldwide- a minority population of just 10% or more is enough to wreak havoc in their host nations.
Although most muslims want to live peacefully, they will side with the extremists when it comes down to it. And they will irresistably be stirred into action when infiltrated and agitated by extremists- who provide the initial spark for the fire by stoking the embers of resentment and hate.
Thailand is a good example. Southern muslims there, making up 10% of the population were existing in relative stability until 40 trained and indoctrinated terrorists from an Al-Quaeda group were infiltrated into the community to sow the seeds of unrest. They must be laughing now at the fact 800 muslims have been killed in response to their provocations, escalating the conflict to a national level and threatening to wreck Thailands main tourism industry.
The fanatical masterminds know that the very structure of islam, fear and coercion, will ensure they get the support needed. Coupled with the accentuating chaos brought on by global warming, we are headed into an unstoppable long term conflict, that cannot be fought just by conventional means. Every head you cut from the monster causes it to grow two more. And ultimately, the west will be forced into retaliation on a broader scale against the muslim world in general- because they will fail/be unable to control the extremists in their own ranks.
At the moment it still appears to be contained. But for how much longer? By the time it starts to seriously and realistically affect western public opinion, it will have slipped out of our control. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| Terrorists are forcing a world war upon us, unavoidable by simple domino effect. |
Yeah, had nothing to do with the overreaction to 9-11 and the subsequent illegal, immoral and unconstitutional invasion of Iraq.   |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, had nothing to do with the overreaction to 9-11 |
And what do you think would have been a 'measured' response to the greatest modern day terrorist atrocity? |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2005 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
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| Yeah, had nothing to do with the overreaction to 9-11 |
And what do you think would have been a 'measured' response to the greatest modern day terrorist atrocity? |
Can't believe you asked this: Afghanistan WAS the measured response. Iraq was a treasonous act against humanity and America. Impeachment should occur. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:44 am Post subject: |
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How was taking out Saddam an act against humanity?
Saddam was as great a killer as Idi Amin. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
How was taking out Saddam an act against humanity?
Saddam was as great a killer as Idi Amin. |
And so is George Bush. Killing people without justification... isn't that what Amin and Saddam did? It's OK if you're American? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| EFLtrainer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
How was taking out Saddam an act against humanity?
Saddam was as great a killer as Idi Amin. |
And so is George Bush. Killing people without justification... isn't that what Amin and Saddam did? It's OK if you're American? |
Killing is unavoidable: But which side has the better long term aim?
Its not a matter of how many deaths. its a matter of what they die for.
Thousands died in WWII to pay the price of freedom. Was that wrong? were they wasted? No.
Saddam gassed thousands in the name of random petty ethnic cleansing. They died for nothing.
you cannot make an omellette without breaking eggs. Yes, their are unfortunate accidental deaths on the road to a better Iraq. you make it sound like the end final aim of the U.S is to kill innocent civilians.
The decade of unbridled, trendy and irrational liberalism is over.Grow up. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
you cannot make an omellette without breaking eggs. Yes, their are unfortunate accidental deaths on the road to a better Iraq. you make it sound like the end final aim of the U.S is to kill innocent civilians.
The decade of unbridled, trendy and irrational liberalism is over.Grow up. |
Well, what a very grown-up response. To answer you: Yes, they knew many innocents would die while purposely lying about the war, its aims and its justification. So, yes, their aim, indeed, was to kill innocents. When you have no just reason for going and killing, invading a sovereign nation in the process.... well. This is all self-evident and the doing of it violates the US constitution. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Well, what a very grown-up response. To answer you: Yes, they knew many innocents would die while purposely lying about the war, its aims and its justification. So, yes, their aim, indeed, was to kill innocents. When you have no just reason for going and killing, invading a sovereign nation in the process.... well. This is all self-evident and the doing of it violates the US constitution. |
US actions probably saved more lives.Furthermore, Saddam's government wasn't legitimate and he never gave up his war. |
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Ajarn Miguk
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: TDY As Assigned
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:26 pm Post subject: Please |
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EFLtrainer wrote:
"This is all self-evident and the doing of it violates the US constitution."
Specifically, where do you find such wording in the U.S. Constitution?
Citation(s), please. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 4:49 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
"This is all self-evident and the doing of it violates the US constitution."
Specifically, where do you find such wording in the U.S. Constitution?
Citation(s), please.
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How about Article II, Section 4:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Manipulating, twisting and distorting evidence submitted to Congress (and the people) for the purposes of gaining support for a voluntary war would be considered a 'high Crime' by a good many people. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
"This is all self-evident and the doing of it violates the US constitution."
Specifically, where do you find such wording in the U.S. Constitution?
Citation(s), please.
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How about Article II, Section 4:
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Manipulating, twisting and distorting evidence submitted to Congress (and the people) for the purposes of gaining support for a voluntary war would be considered a 'high Crime' by a good many people. |
Exactly. Lying to congress is a crime just as it is in a courtroom. Remember Clinton being impeached for saying simply, "I did not have sex with that woman." Bush went to congress, the public, EVERYWHERE and stated unequivocally that Iraq was a key supporter of Al Queda, had weapons of mass destruction. Both absolutelyl lies. Downing Street.
Like I said, absolutely clear.
As to your "more would have died [sic]" comment: Sorry, but at the time of the invasion Saddam was locked in pretty tightly. There was very little or no ethnic cleansing going on, though I'm sure he was pretty busy with political killings.
Don't even get me started on how many died due to the sanctions!
But, of course, killing hundreds of thousands of innocents to get one man. Priceless. So... the choices were go to war or wait a couple months till the arms inspections were done. Not a hard choice. Not at all. In fact, even if it took years, it would have cost far less human suffering in the end.
This was an immoral, unethical, illegal choice. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:04 am Post subject: |
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hundreds of thousands? according to who?
As someone who did not support the invasion, I'd appricate it if you stuck to the facts when making your argument.  |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
hundreds of thousands? according to who?
As someone who did not support the invasion, I'd appricate it if you stuck to the facts when making your argument. |
Go check out the stats on the "collateral damage" from teh sanctions. And people disagree about the true number killed as a direct result of this war, too.
If I were talking to someone in reality, as opposed to on an anonymous board it might be worth it to check facts for you. SAdly, I don't write down the source of everything I read and hear. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| The most 'official' number is around 25000, and also the most credible number to use, especially when talking to someone who agrees with the war in the first place. Citing collateral damage may or may not be correct, but over here it will just lead people to dismiss you which takes away from the point of discussing things here in the first place. |
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