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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Baby Bush is definitely "borderline". |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Just another Fahrenheit 9/11-style emotional propaganda piece designed to make us hate Bush.
I didn't vote for him, don't agree with his government or policies, foriegn or domestic, but I don't dislike him personally, and I have always liked his way of being able to joke about himself...this kind of propaganda doesn't change my mind, it just alienates me from the people who produced it, as I resent it when an ideologue tries to manipulate my opinion. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Just another Fahrenheit 9/11-style emotional propaganda piece designed to make us hate Bush. |
Reading Gopher's comment, I was expecting yet another sophmoric dig at Bush from pseudo-intellectual liberals who think ridiculing Bush's college grades is the height of political satire.
However, I think in this instance the satire was well-aimed. For those who might not be familiar with the background to the story, that film was taken at a press club roast, where politicians get up and make a few jokes at the expense of themselves or their colleagues. Bush's routine consisted of showing a few slides of himself looking for something in his office, accompanied by the "can't find those WMDs anywhere" riff that you saw on the video.
Now remember, this was post-invasion, right around the time when it was becoming apparent that there was no significant stock of WMD to be found in Iraq. When the details of the roast became public, even some moderate conservatives were opining that it was in rather poor taste for the president to be joking about one of his own policy mistakes that had already cost the lives of American soldiers(not to mention even more Iraqis). I mean, imagine if the police in some town ordered a raid on a house in search of some non-existent weapons, resulting in the deaths of several officers. Then the next day the police chief goes to a public luncheon and starts cracking jokes about his mistakes.
I think the issue encapsulated by the video is not Bush's lack of intellect, but rather his general inability to grasp the gravity of situations that he involves his countrymen in.
And it should be pointed out that at least one Democrat, Joe Lieberman, was shown laughing heartily at Bush's jokes. |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:12 pm Post subject: re: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Just another Fahrenheit 9/11-style emotional propaganda piece designed to make us hate Bush.
I didn't vote for him, don't agree with his government or policies, foriegn or domestic, but I don't dislike him personally, and I have always liked his way of being able to joke about himself...this kind of propaganda doesn't change my mind, it just alienates me from the people who produced it, as I resent it when an ideologue tries to manipulate my opinion. |
Joking in good taste is fine, but do you think he'd be making the same jokes if one of his children was a casualty of his mis-guided war? It was insensitive to say the least, and it wouldn't have taken much foresight to figure out how hurtful his jokes would be to parents who lost their children in the war. Politics is propoganda one way or the other - do you honestly think you ever get anything straight?
Peace,
Daniel |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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No. If objective reality exists, we distort it anytime we attempt to classify or describe it with words. Impossible to "get it straight." Only a supernatural being can do that.
On the other hand, we have critical thinking. Everything in its own context, for example, and we should not read history backwards. As bad, as insensitive, and just plain dangerous Bush is as president, this was an annual Washington event that required him to find a way to joke about himself or his presidency...
I doubt that he was laughing at the dead anymore than Columbus set out to rape, enslave, or kill Indians in the New World...so let's not read too much into it. I mean, is it really necessary to point out that Bush is insensitive and not far-sighted yet again. I believe that he is. By why are we still beating this dead horse? What good will come of it now, in 2005, when he can't even run again, ever? |
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Butterfly
Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Location: Kuwait
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| I think the issue encapsulated by the video is not Bush's lack of intellect, but rather his general inability to grasp the gravity of situations that he involves his countrymen in. |
You write brilliantly OTOH. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:56 am Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
| I didn't vote for him, don't agree with his government or policies, foriegn or domestic, but I don't dislike him personally, and I have always liked his way of being able to joke about himself...this kind of propaganda doesn't change my mind, it just alienates me from the people who produced it, as I resent it when an ideologue tries to manipulate my opinion. |
So, showing people who've died for Bush's incorrect "hunch" about NON-EXISTENT WMD's "alienates" you?
What's more important is the guy's ability to joke around?
Then you dare to talk about propaganda?
So, it's only propaganda if it's anti-Bush?
| Quote: |
| I doubt that he was laughing at the dead anymore than Columbus set out to rape, enslave, or kill Indians in the New World...so let's not read too much into it. I mean, is it really necessary to point out that Bush is insensitive and not far-sighted yet again. I believe that he is. By why are we still beating this dead horse? What good will come of it now, in 2005, when he can't even run again, ever? |
This is one of the most idiotic comparisons I've ever seen on this board.
It is indisputable that a great many people have died in a fruitless search for WMD.
It is indisputable that Columbus abused Native Americans, many of whom died as such.
That leaves your argument about whether George W Bush or Columbus were laughing about the BULLCRAP people have died for in their names.
As an aside, I'm a bit tired of people who voted or reacted one way or another because of the hateful/not-nice positions against our current president.
The election is over, but the presidency lives after it. Talk to any Republican against Clinton.
At times, I can admire my opponents. They disagree with me on principle.
However, to say, "I never voted or supported Bush, but this video alienates me." describes, in my opinion, people who I would describe as flaccid.
After 5 years of this government, any rational human being has one of two opinions: It's good, or it's bad.
If you're still worming your way between the two, you are a seriously limp-wristed whiner.
In no other words, let's be done with "Whoo, I liked Kerry till he was hateful" BS.
You either support Bush or you don't.
"The election is over; so, stop sticking it to my bush!." is lamest of the lame.
You've flown your colors.
Enjoy. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:17 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
you dare to...?
one of the most idiotic comparisons I've ever seen on this board...
However, to say, "I never voted or supported Bush, but this video alienates me." describes, in my opinion, people who I would describe as flaccid...
...you're still worming your way...you are a seriously limp-wristed whiner.
lamest of the lame. |
Personal attack and this kind of inflammatory language are the last refuge of the incompetent.
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
After 5 years of this government, any rational human being has one of two opinions: It's good, or it's bad.
You either support Bush or you don't. |
This is too simplistic.
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| You've flown your colors. |
So what? Am I on your hitlist or something? This isn't a debate or about choosing sides. Kiss my ass. You're too black-and-white.
Last edited by Gopher on Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 7:47 am Post subject: ... |
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Yeah. So let me restate.
There ARE no WMD. Bush thinks that's pretty funny. He used a very cheap, callous joke at the '04 Gridiron Dinner. You label it another Fahrenheit 9/11. You didn't vote for him, support him, or anything, but you like his ability to joke.
FYI, the '05 Gridiron Dinner didn't feature Bush sticking his head up his own ass to look for the WMD. It featured his wife. I suppose those gut-busting jokes from a year earlier are no longer so funny.
People DIED because of his WMD "hunch".
It's really that simple.
Whether you think that is propaganda says something about you.
And I don't care whether my opinions helped or detracted from his election.
If that video inspires pro-Bush sentiment in you, so be it.
It is purely reactionary.
I wish I thought that it was funny that the proof for this war is still missing.
But I like the guy. Give him a break...  |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2005 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry that you cannot feel sympathy for or even like some qualities about someone you profoundly disagree with, but I can and do, and I don't see any reason to believe it would be profitable to try to explain that to you, so I don't know where to go from here except to say "OK, hear what you're saying."
I don't think I agreed with anything at all that Reagan stood for, to cite another example, but in many ways I always thought of him as a grandfatherly figure or an uncle, I liked him that much, especially when he'd say things like "over my dead body!" with respect to some of his issues with Congress.
I'm sorry, man, there are very, very few people in the world who are purely good or purely bad. That may be the difference between us. Must respectfully suggest we agree to disagree. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:33 am Post subject: ... |
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Hey, dude, I'm sorry too that you stumbled into a thread pointing out (very "unfunnily") how people have died as a result of our President's half-assed war, then proceeded to label it propaganda because you like the guy and know you're being manipulated by the anti-Bush machine.
Your basic response is, "I like the guy." You then apply your shrewd use of "critical thinking" to offer up the non-analogy of Columbus. This, as I read it, is to suggest that Bush didn't intend for the bad things to happen as a result of his non-mission to disarm Iraq.
You obviously don't like people talking about this. It's over. A non-issue. A done deal. I'll stop flogging the dead horse when your hoary-haired father figure owns up to his misconduct.
But, hey, "over his dead body" will that happen. A true sign of character.
Something to tell the grandkids about.
Which brings us to Reagan. I thought of my own grand-dad when Ronnie said he wasn't going to take the stand during Iran-Contra. Why? Because "no other President has". Indeed a feisty boy. Admirable. Terminal delivery of critical thought.
But I do agree with you. Sometimes when I see Saddam Hussein, he takes on this quality that's a mix of Santa Claus and Charles Bronson. Other times, when I see footage of him hoisting that gun and firing it into the air, it kind of reminds me of Gabby Hayes. It hits like a soft dart in my heart that he's just another plain old Joe. Perhaps with some faults, but maybe we should just not be too harsh on him. After all, was he ever given a chance to poke fun at his homicides? Don't get me wrong. I never supported him. Didn't like his policy. CERTAINLY never voted for him. But I thought that slamming him became so passe in '91. It especially bothers me that people would talk about him now. He's clearly not getting elected again, so what gives? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:51 am Post subject: |
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| OK, you win, your simplicity is impentetrable. Please feel free to come back now with the last word, because I'm finished trying to get the point across here. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:27 am Post subject: ... |
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Right.
Simply and respectably. Kiss my ass.  |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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anyone know when Bush made that Joke?
He probably made it well before those soldiers were killed.
Which means he wasn't joking about things after they died.
Besides US actions in Iraq have probably saved lives. Anyone who says they oppose the war on humanitarian grounds is either disingenuous or ignorant cause nothing the US has done could be worse than what Saddam would do if he got free and lets remember his sons were coming up next.
But hey the anti Bush people got Bush elected a second time and if they keep this up then the republicans will win again in 2008. But they never listen cause the anti Bush people are for the most part full of themselves.
Oh well there is a great article in the New Republic about this.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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