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matesol
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:56 am Post subject: Sleeping with an Elephant + Weed! |
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I've never done pot, or even smoked a cigarette in my life (not making this up for the web, I really haven't.), but I think anyone who wants to should be allowed to, whatever the US government thinks about it.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/cust2.html
Block the Extradition of a Hero for Liberty
by Michael Cust and Peter Jaworski
by Michael Cust
On Friday July 29th, 2005, British Columbia Marijuana Party President Marc Emery was arrested while vacationing in Nova Scotia by Halifax police, and his business in Vancouver was raided by Vancouver police, both at the request of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA).
Working in cooperation with the U.S. Attorney��s Office in Seattle, Washington, the DEA is requesting that Emery be extradited to the United States on charges of conspiracy to cultivate marijuana, conspiracy to launder money, and conspiracy to distribute marijuana seeds. All charges relate to the operation of his business Marc Emery Direct Marijuana Seeds, which openly sells marijuana seeds – but not marijuana – over the Internet.
Emery uses the profits from his business to fund his magazine Cannabis Culture, his Internet TV network Pot-TV, and drug law reform and libertarian activism around the world.
Presently, there are many Canadian, English, and Dutch businesses selling marijuana seeds to Americans. To understand why Emery in particular was targeted, the history of his activism must be understood.
Emery's career as an activist began in 1980 when, as proprietor of the City Lights Bookstore in London, Ontario, he stumbled upon Ayn Rand's Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal and Murray Rothbard's Conceived in Liberty. The influence of these books was profound and, eventually, Emery decided to devote his career to the cause of individual freedom.
While proprietor of City Lights, Emery led several notable campaigns. When the local garbage collectors union went on strike, Emery started a private and gratis garbage collection service. When the Ontario government banned 2 Live Crew CDs, Emery advertised the sale of, and sold, the CDs from his store. While Ontario's Sunday close laws were in place, Emery repeatedly opened his store on Sundays. The law was eventually overturned in no small part thanks to his efforts.
Emery first became involved in drug law reform activism in the early 1990s, when he sold copies of High Times magazine on the steps of London police headquarters to protest Canada��s then prohibition on drug-related literature (which was eventually overturned thanks to his efforts).
In 1994, Emery moved his activist efforts west and set up HempBC in Vancouver, B.C., which he termed his "libertarian capitalist project." His "hempire" included the Little Grow Shop, the HempBC legal aid society, and the Cannabis Café. Together they were to be the political, cultural, and economic centres of British Columbia's burgeoning marijuana culture.
In the late 1990s, Emery's businesses suffered a series of raids from Vancouver police, each coming shortly after Emery was featured in major U.S. media outlets like CNN, the cover of the Wall Street Journal, and ABC��s Sex, Drugs, and Consenting Adults. It was rumoured then that the arrests were motivated by pressure from U.S. law enforcement.
In court, B.C. judges refused to send Emery to jail for his peaceful civil disobedience, giving him at most fines. In retaliation, Vancouver police started seizing Emery��s inventory, but not charging him – in effect stealing his property.
Eventually run under financially, Emery moved his operation to B.C.'s Sunshine Coast, a short ferry ride from Vancouver. There, he continued both his seed business and his magazine. It was also during this sojourn that Emery founded Pot-TV.
In 2001, Emery moved his operation back to Vancouver when he founded the B.C. Marijuana Party, a provincial political party dedicated to individual rights and ending the drug war. That year, the party ran in its first provincial election. It was the first political party in B.C.'s history to have a candidate in every riding in its first election, fielding 79 candidates in 79 ridings. The party garnered 50,000 votes on election night.
In the summer of 2003, Emery discovered a loophole in Canadian law that made possession of marijuana legal. When Canadian authorities continued to enforce possession laws, Emery went on an eighteen-city cross-country tour, smoking marijuana on the steps of police stations, daring police to arrest him. He was arrested in six cities, but all of the charges were eventually dropped when it was discovered that Emery was in fact correct. (Since his tour, the prohibition of marijuana possession in Canada has been re-instituted by an Ontario Court of Appeals decision.)
In the 2004 Canadian federal election, Emery supported Canada's left-wing New Democratic Party after party leader Jack Layton appeared on Pot-TV and promised to legalize the growth, sale, and possession of marijuana if elected.
It is because of his long career of activism that the DEA is targeting him. Unlike other seed merchants who quietly conduct their affairs, Emery puts the brunt of his efforts into the movement to end the prohibition of marijuana and to legitimate the culture that has emerged surrounding the plant.
Since the prohibition of drugs is a multi-billion dollar affair, we shouldn't be surprised. Drug cops, prosecutors, judges, politicians, prison construction contractors, companies that use cheap prison labour, and military firms that sell weapons and surveillance equipment to drug law enforcement are all significantly enriched by the continuation of the war on drugs.
Further, those participating in the drug war share a common assumption about members of the marijuana culture. They all believe that marijuana people are second-class citizens who deserve to be vilified. Their views are best expressed in U.S. Drug Czar John Walter's statement that Vancouver's marijuana scene is "moral pollution."
In the public policy sphere, the assumptions of the drug warriors are the rule. With very few exceptions, all politicians operate on the assumption that there is something inherently wrong with using and growing marijuana.
But such views are in direct contradiction with society's values. Consider Cheech and Chong movies, the Simpsons, South Park, late-night talk shows, and the stories most of us have about our own experiences with marijuana. These all involve the implicit understanding that smoking marijuana is innocent, largely harmless, and fun.
We're right to think that.
Yet, because of the disconnect between public policy values and social values, those involved in the marijuana culture have their properties seized, and are regularly thrown in prison. A turn in prison makes finding work more difficult, creates tension in families, and makes returning to normal life complex and harried.
These actions, however, cannot continue indefinitely. Suppose we were truly serious about marijuana and its dangerous effects, so much so that we gave everyone who tried it a place to stay behind bars. Who would have a criminal record? John Lennon would. So would former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau, award-winning Canadian author Pierre Burton, Bill Clinton, and, yes, even George W. Bush himself. He'd have good company in current Prime Minister Paul Martin, who ate marijuana brownies, and former Federal Justice Minister Alan Rock who has taken a puff or twelve.
Further, growing numbers of successful individuals are beginning to call into question the drug war. Nobel-Prize winners Milton Friedman, Vernon Smith, and James Buchanan, ABC news anchor John Stossel, Officer in the Order of Canada and philosophy professor Jan Narveson, Congressman Ron Paul, the Mises Institute, the Cato Institute, the Fraser Institute, and the Canadian Senate committee on the non-medicinal use of drugs, have all argued that marijuana prohibition should end. No, more than that – this list of sophisticates have argued for the outright legalization of marijuana.
All the while, Canada��s experiment with marijuana tolerance continues to be successful. Most cases of pot smoking are greeted with a shrug and a chuckle. And, in spite of the hostility towards marijuana shown by the official organs of the police, for instance the Canadian Police Association, many on-the-street police officers share in the chuckle, rightfully acknowledging marijuana use as a benign form of recreation.
Canada's judges have the opportunity to send a powerful message to American lawmakers, and to Canada��s Parliament. They can, and should, block the extradition of Marc Emery making plain in the process that the only moral pollution here is the war on drugs.
August 4, 2005
Michael Cust [send him mail] an M.A. candidate in political science at the University of Waterloo in Waterloo, Ontario. He also runs this web log. Peter Jaworski, M.A., [send him mail] organizes the annual Liberty Summer Seminar (held this August 13–14 in Orono, Ontario) where Marc Emery was a confirmed speaker this year until the events of July 29th. He is an M.Sc. candidate in Philosophy and Public Policy at the London School of Economics and will be starting his Ph.D. in Applied Ethics, Social & Political Philosophy at Bowling Green State University in Ohio. He also has a website.
Copyright © 2005 LewRockwell.com |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:53 am Post subject: |
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Hummmm.....
Canadians and their pot.
God forbid should anyone keep them from it. Oh, the horror! |
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Cthulhu

Joined: 02 Feb 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:23 am Post subject: |
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Because pot is far more harmful to individuals and society than alcohol, right Derrek?
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Compunction Junction
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:49 am Post subject: |
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hey derk...that isn't fair.
we didn't say anything yet about 'mericans and their guns... |
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matesol
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Derrek wrote: |
Hummmm.....
Canadians and their pot.
God forbid should anyone keep them from it. Oh, the horror! |
No, the horror is the US thinks they have the right to extradite someone who is doing business in Canada. Even if he is breaking laws in Canada, he should not be extradited to the US because he committed "crimes" which are not considered serious in Canada. Morever, the Canadian government has KNOWINGLY collected taxes from his business for the last 10 years. In any case, there are several companies who sell marijuana seeds to US customers. However, the US decided to pick on someonw who was challenging the almighty state, i.e. bureaucrats who think that they have to answer to no one.
If they want to press charges against someone, they should press charges against US customers if indeed they are breaking the law. People in Canada who sell marijuana seeds should not be obligated to know the laws of every country they export too. That is what CUSTOMS is for. Bringing a product into a country in your lugggage (be it drugs, furs, ivory, etc) is much different than a Canadian business answering a mail order.
I certainly hope that he isn't extradited. See this website:
http://bureaucrash.com/campaigns/freemarc/
Last edited by matesol on Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:36 am; edited 4 times in total |
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skinhead

Joined: 11 Jun 2004
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Weed is a criminal offence. Mother Nature should get 40 years just for being presumptuous! |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
People in Canada who sell marijuana seeds should not be obligated to know the laws of every country they export too. |
Is this one of the ways Canada is special? |
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sonofthedarkstranger
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Legalize it
Don't criticize it
Legalize it
Yea
Yea
And i will advertise it.
Singers smoke it.
Players of instrument too.
Legalize it
Yea
Yea
It's the best thing you can do. |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Quote: |
People in Canada who sell marijuana seeds should not be obligated to know the laws of every country they export too. |
Is this one of the ways Canada is special? |
Normally you have a lot of common sense, I'm surprised you'd stoop to Derrek-style Canada-baiting.
It's the 'marijauna' part of the equation that seems to have some people miffed, so let's change it:
If I sell on-line mail-order irradiated foods or genetically modified seeds (NOT marijauna, let's say "barley" just for the sake of it), and those happen to be banned in your country but not mine but you send me money for an order, am I wrong to try to fill your order if I'm not breaking the laws of my own country?
What if it were an American selling firearms to Canadians; firearms which were legal in the US but not in Canada?
Do our extradition and related reciprocal law enforcement agreements allow for seizure of the property and the arrest of the proprietor? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
happen to be banned in your country but not mine but you send me money for an order, am I wrong to try to fill your order if I'm not breaking the laws of my own country?
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Maybe my comment was Canada bashing, but I don't think so. I meant 'special' in the sense of not having to obey the law. Anyone involved in international trade has to know the laws of any countries involved. It is just a fact. There is a saying that I think comes from Common Law: Ignorance is no excuse.
Any other logic means the guy can bag up a kilo or two, pop it in a box and ship it off claiming, "Hey, it's legal in Canada". I don't buy that and I don't think you do either.
I'm all for legalizing the stuff. No problem with it. But the guy who smuggles it into Korea and gets caught has to pay the piper and shouldn't whine. I see no difference with the guy smuggling over the internet.
Do our extradition and related reciprocal law enforcement agreements allow for seizure of the property and the arrest of the proprietor?
I don't know the laws about smuggling anything, but my sense of common sense tells me that both parties are equally guilty. The goods should be seized and the shipper and receiver should be punished according to the dictates of the law. |
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Pyongshin Sangja

Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Location: I love baby!
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Selling seeds is technically illegal in Canada but hasn't been prosecuted since 1968.
Emery's lawyers are arguing that this is an instance in which the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty is not functioning properly. The Yanks are digging up old court rulings, they're posturing.
He isn't mailing them bags of weed, dude.
Marc Emery and his buddies, however, suck dead donkeys and are one rung up from organised crime. Maybe one rung below. He is no hero.
They are, in any case, our criminals. Not yours.
As for you, Derrek, where do you think our weed is going?
Uruguay? |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Any other logic means the guy can bag up a kilo or two, pop it in a box and ship it off claiming, "Hey, it's legal in Canada". I don't buy that and I don't think you do either. |
Sorry, I thought you were Canada-baiting with that 'Canada is special' remark.
I think if you re-read my post and think about what you are trying to say, you'll see I'm right. To summarize: I don't have to be responsible for the laws of other countries, just my own (or if I'm an expat, my own plus the one where I reside).
[edit: well, after reading PS' latest post below I may be off mark here as mailing seeds IS technically illegal here in Canada]
As someone else has already pointed out, it's a problem for Customs and the recepient. You gave an example of sending a kilo in the mail, but that's not a good example as that is not legal in Canada.
Let's try another hypothetical- you send an issue of Penthouse to your buddy Uzbekistan, not realizing that all possession/distribution of pornography is a felony there. The country you sent it from (Korea, USA) has an extradition treaty as well as other reciprocal law enforcement agreements with Uzbekistan; Should your place get tossed and you arrested and brought to the local station station for questioning, possibly followed up by extradition to face charges in Uzbekistan?
The guy was on a friggin' holiday in Halifax and Cdn law enforcement threw him in jail, and they seized his store back in Vancouver. All because of DEA pressure. That's just wrong.
Last edited by Bulsajo on Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Bulsajo

Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
Selling seeds is technically illegal in Canada but hasn't been prosecuted since 1968. |
Ah, I see.
Quote: |
Emery's lawyers are arguing that this is an instance in which the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty is not functioning properly. |
I think they're right. This is clearly a politically motivated move rather than strictly a law-enforcement one.
Quote: |
They are, in any case, our criminals. Not yours. |
Excellent point.
Could you see it if it was A) an American citizen B) who didn't set foot in Canada C) being arrested in the US D) for breaking a Cdn law and E) arrested at the request of Cdn law enforcement?
The shit would completely hit the fan.
Completely. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Let's try another hypothetical- you send an issue of Penthouse to your buddy Uzbekistan, not realizing that all possession/distribution of pornography is a felony there. |
You're right, my example of a kilo wasn't a good example. Penthouse makes a better illustration.
My point is that I do think you (the shipper) has to be aware of the laws of the country you are sending stuff to. When I go to the post office to ship my boxes of clothes and stuff to Korea, the mailman has to look in his big fat book for what is allowable to enter Korea. When this dude goes to the post office to ship weed seeds into the US he has to clear it with the post office there. He cannot reasonably claim ignorance. He's deliberately breaking a law (and so is the person who ordered the seeds).
There's a post elsewhere about a guy who bought a PC in the US and wants to ship it to Korea. He's checked up on something as innocuous as a personal possession. Can you expect less of a company? Especially one that is selling something everyone knows is illegal?
Anyway, I doubt the US expects him to be extradicted. It is much more likely the DEA put pressure on in this way to pressure your government to crack down on a pretty open, blatant criminal--he's advertising on the internet. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Anyway, I doubt the US expects him to be extradicted. It is much more likely the DEA put pressure on in this way to pressure your government to crack down on a pretty open, blatant criminal--he's advertising on the internet.
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If that's the case, it's even worse. Because the purpose of such a treaty is to enforce American laws, not pressure Canadians to crack down on domestic crime.
That said, if Marc Emery wants to be immune from American laws, he should probably think twice before using the American postal system to break those laws. |
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