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hypnotist
Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Location: I wish I were a sock
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 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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I can quite believe her father was a Ba'athist. She's certainly very careful not to come out as pro-Saddam, though (if not very anti-) and has mentioned a few times masses of people not being pro-Saddam. I'm certain she sympathises with some of the Ba'athists but that doesn't mean she is one herself.
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| I have nothing against the Kurds (20% of Iraq) , I hope they get what they want and I respect Sistani. |
You don't think Sistani is too pro-Iranian?
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| As for the rest anyone who supports Al Qaida , the Bathists or Khomeni deserves worse than to be hated.By the way support for Riverbend truly is hate for Iraq since she supports a group that is against 75- 80% of Iraqis. Hypnotist you are too smart to be talking like George Galloway. Anyway remember there would have been no US action in Iraq if Saddam Hussein had given up his war. |
All I'm getting at is that Iraq is made up of Iraqis, and in a lot of ways they differ in their political and cultural views to us in the West. Our leaders speak of 'insurgents' as if their views (not their actions) were limited to a small part of Iraq, and that 'ordinary' Iraqis would embrace the democracy we're bringing to them (at the end of a gun barrel) if only we let them - meanwhile we aren't offering a timetable for the transfer of political power to Iraq and we're more or less dictating to them their constitution.
I honestly don't see how any occupied nation can be called democratic. Were it democratic, the people could vote out the occupying force, and we know that's not going to happen. Anyway.
My point is that despite the past of some people, they exist in an Iraq that we and they have to make work. It seems sometimes, Joo, that you want Iraq to be a Kurdish nation and wish the Ba'athists, 'insurgents', those who attack alliance forces, those who call the current Government puppets, etc to just disappear (or to 'be disappeared'). Sadly, these are part of the people of Iraq that we have to trust to run their country.
Riverbend is an intelligent young woman writing lucidly about her experiences and opinions. Those opinions are no doubt shared by some other Iraqis. Other Iraqis disagree (as was pointed out on that thread you linked, there are other Iraqi blogs - on both sides). Somehow, we have to give all these people a place to live in the new nation (ok, not Al Queda terrorists, but remember they didn't exist in Iraq before the invasion...). That's the only way we'll ever see a stable, peaceful Iraq. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Could very well have been Ba'thist during Saddam's reign in the same way that your average Vladimir was a Communist Party Member in Russia when it was the Soviet Union. Simply the safe and expected thing to do- join the party. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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I can quite believe her father was a Ba'athist. She's certainly very careful not to come out as pro-Saddam, though (if not very anti-) and has mentioned a few times masses of people not being pro-Saddam. I'm certain she sympathises with some of the Ba'athists but that doesn't mean she is one herself. |
If she came out as pro Saddam she would be discredited right away.
If she isn't then she is close to being a bathist.
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| You don't think Sistani is too pro-Iranian? |
No in fact when he was sick but not he choose to go to England and not Iran. In fact Iranian government doesn't particularly like him , and the other way around
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| All I'm getting at is that Iraq is made up of Iraqis, and in a lot of ways they differ in their political and cultural views to us in the West. Our leaders speak of 'insurgents' as if their views (not their actions) were limited to a small part of Iraq, and that 'ordinary' Iraqis would embrace the democracy we're bringing to them (at the end of a gun barrel) if only we let them - meanwhile we aren't offering a timetable for the transfer of political power to Iraq and we're more or less dictating to them their constitution. |
The insurgents except for Sadr are limited to the Sunni triangle
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| I honestly don't see how any occupied nation can be called democratic. Were it democratic, the people could vote out the occupying force, and we know that's not going to happen. Anyway |
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Iraq is one of the most democratic nations in the mideast. It is certainly far more democratic now than it was 3 years ago.
Besides the US enjoys an 80% approval rating w/ the Kurds and the main Shia groups have agreed to allow the US to keep forces in Iraq for a while.
Lets not forget the insurgents tried to stop the elections
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| My point is that despite the past of some people, they exist in an Iraq that we and they have to make work. It seems sometimes, Joo, that you want Iraq to be a Kurdish nation and wish the Ba'athists, 'insurgents', those who attack alliance forces, those who call the current Government puppets, etc to just disappear (or to 'be disappeared'). Sadly, these are part of the people of Iraq that we have to trust to run their country. |
Let the insurgents either 1) accept elections or 2) ask for independence.
What gives them the right to tell the rest of Iraq what to do?
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?
Riverbend is an intelligent young woman writing lucidly about her experiences and opinions. Those opinions are no doubt shared by some other Iraqis. Other Iraqis disagree (as was pointed out on that thread you linked, there are other Iraqi blogs - on both sides). Somehow, we have to give all these people a place to live in the new nation (ok, not Al Queda terrorists, but remember they didn't exist in Iraq before the invasion...). That's the only way we'll ever see a stable, peaceful Iraq. |
Except for the part about Riverbend -which is way too generous and forgiving , I agree with that.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:45 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulsajo wrote: |
| Could very well have been Ba'thist during Saddam's reign in the same way that your average Vladimir was a Communist Party Member in Russia when it was the Soviet Union. Simply the safe and expected thing to do- join the party. |
except that her father was high enough to be able to go overseas and get his daughter educated over there.
Bathists of course lost their status when Saddam was taken down. So they are not happy.
I would guess that at least half of the insurgents are either Bathists or ex members of the Iraqi army. |
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