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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:03 am Post subject: Gaza pullout |
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Israel's withdrawal from gaza begins today, soon to be followed by the west bank. But will it simply encourage the palestinians to up the pressure, or will peace be reached when all occupied territory is handed over?
Palestinian terrorist leader Ismail Haniya said: "Hamas confirms it is committed to armed resistance, it is our strategic choice until the end of the occupation of our land."
- meaning - "we will continue suicide bombing until every jew is pushed out of Israel, no matter how many concessions Israel makes for the peace process".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4150028.stm
I wonder what Israel will get in return for the gesture???.
More bloodshed from an emboldened Hamas.
Last edited by rapier on Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:26 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Only Nixon could go to China. |
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funplanet
Joined: 20 Jun 2003
Location: The new Bucheon!
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Big mistake....Gaza is Israeli territory...occupied??? no, captured fair and square...keep it! it's yours! |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| funplanet wrote: |
| Big mistake....Gaza is Israeli territory...occupied??? no, captured fair and square...keep it! it's yours! |
If you wish to capture land that has occupants, deny said occupants rights of citizenship, and keep them permamently unenfranchised, there are many historical precedents for doing so. Just don't go calling yourself a "democracy" if you do. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Most peoples under military occupation didn't have the right to vote. |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 7:41 pm Post subject: |
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?? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:42 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Yu_Bum_suk"]
| funplanet wrote: |
| Big mistake....Gaza is Israeli territory...occupied??? no, captured fair and square...keep it! it's yours! |
| Quote: |
| If you wish to capture land that has occupants |
Do you mean gaza, or israel as a whole? Jews were historically the first there, and have maintained an unbroken presence since 2000BC.
| Quote: |
| deny said occupants rights of citizenship |
There are many israeli Arabs, with passports, having jobs and prosperity within Israel.
| Quote: |
| and keep them permamently unenfranchised |
As I see it they are their own worst enemy. Majority of muslims in Arab states are disenfranchised- ie they live with no rights under appalling regimes.
Monday August 15, 09:04 AM
Israel launches Gaza pullout, settlers defiant
NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip (Reuters) - Israel launched its Gaza pullout on Monday, sending soldiers to deliver 48-hour eviction notices in Jewish settlements where hundreds of hardliners blocked gates and vowed resistance.
The army sealed off the Gaza Strip and deployed after daybreak, telling settlers they must leave by Wednesday or be forcibly removed under Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's plan to end Israel's 38-year occupation of the coastal territory.
But there were tense standoffs outside the most defiant enclaves, where settlers used makeshift barricades and their bodies to impede an operation paving the way for Israel's first uprooting of settlements on land Palestinians want for a state.
In the largest settlement, Neve Dekalim, bearded men stood at the main entrance praying for divine intervention and settlers with loudspeakers urged soldiers to refuse orders. Protesters set fire to tyres, sending up clouds of dark smoke.
In the Morag enclave, a woman with a toddler in her arms pleaded tearfully with an army officer: "Don't do this to us".
Said Morag settler Chaim Gross: "A lot of blood was spilt on this holy land. It was presented to Abraham for the Jews and we are not going to leave it."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/15082005/325/israel-launches-gaza-pullout-settlers-defiant.html
What we have is the scenario where Palestinians have mushroomed in population in gaza to 1M (thriving on a trickled-down Israeli prosperity), presenting israel with the threat of a sizeable demographic, a muslim majority within 25 years- unless they are cut off and given independence now. They cease to be a part of Israel.
Philosophically I disagree with the pullout, the land is Jewish. But politically Israel has to cut off an infected limb. |
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death from above
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: in your head
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 4:50 am Post subject: |
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isn't this a form of birth-control? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Gaza pullout
isn't this a form of birth-control?
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Only if gaza is the Hebrew word for go-chu. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
Gaza pullout
isn't this a form of birth-control?
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Only if gaza is the Hebrew word for go-chu. |
Pull OUT, eh ??? Hmmmmm ... doesn't sound too manly to me boys ... |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Said Morag settler Chaim Gross: "A lot of blood was spilt on this holy land. It was presented to Abraham for the Jews and we are not going to leave it." |
I'm not up on my fairytales, but don't the Musselmen consider this Abraham to be their father too? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Said Morag settler Chaim Gross: "A lot of blood was spilt on this holy land. It was presented to Abraham for the Jews and we are not going to leave it." |
I'm not up on my fairytales, but don't the Musselmen consider this Abraham to be their father too? |
The great biblical figure Abraham sired two sons. Isaac (born of Sara) started the Jewish nation and Ishmael (born of an Egyptian slave woman named Agar) founded the nation of Arabs. I had always thought of Abraham as the Father of the Jews. It turns out, however, he was also the father of the Islamic Semitic peoples. In fact when the news media cover the annual Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca; in that giant monolith you might have seen thousands of Muslims walking around in the great mosque in Mecca, is a black cornerstone that Abraham was reputed to have been given by the Angel Gabriel himself. Nothing in the middle east is simple. The Jews and the Muslims are literally blood brothers.
History clearly states that Abraham founded the nation of Israel around 2000BC and it was in the place today we call Israel and would include all land west of the Jordan River. Virtually no one can dispute this. As such, the Jews can say "We were here waaaay first." They clearly were. Also notice that when I referred to Agar above I mentioned that she was an Egyptian slave. Slavery was a constant. Plundering and pillaging the land next door and removing its inhabitants was standard operating procedure for most of the 2000 years BC and even well after. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 8:44 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
| I had always thought of Abraham as the Father of the Jews. It turns out, however, he was also the father of the Islamic Semitic peoples. |
Well, there you go. I already know more about this than you. Quit drumbeating for one side or another. You're a white man, for crissakes. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 9:04 am Post subject: |
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That was aimed at YOU, rapier.
Ignore if you like, but the rest of us will watch and observe while you do. And perhaprs we will decide that this is what you are all about.
The whole notion of making a bet about whether a guy who blew up a bus was Muslim or not, frankly, made my stomach churn a bit - watching you make that bet and now decide to ignore it, I start to feel the vomit reflex - no offense, but when you speak with eloquence and frequncy about the evils of Islam, and them you try to duck out on a very clearly spoken claim ...
| Quote: |
What we have is the scenario where Palestinians have mushroomed in population in gaza to 1M (thriving on a trickled-down Israeli prosperity), presenting israel with the threat of a sizeable demographic, a muslim majority within 25 years- unless they are cut off and given independence now. They cease to be a part of Israel.
Philosophically I disagree with the pullout, the land is Jewish. But politically Israel has to cut off an infected limb. |
Well, first, you have to recognize the evil that exists when you refer to an entire population as gangrene ... if you ever notice it, you might realize that the US might choose the same option and declare war against the parts of the country that failed to vote for Bush and his War - yes, it's absurd, but not much more so than what you just said.
I've read you for several years here, rapier, but I never noticed the level of bigoted hate that see from you recently ... was I just not paying attention? |
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