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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:50 am Post subject: |
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The third temple: wikipedia
http://www.answers.com/topic/temple-in-jerusalem
New Evidence for the Site of the Temple in Jerusalem
http://askelm.com/temple/t001211.htm
History of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount
http://www.templemount.org/
The new temple of jerusalem- a multi-faith view
http://www.thehope.org/templerv.htm
The Israeli rabbinical council .. is calling upon all groups involved in Temple Mount research to prepare detailed architectural plans for the reconstruction of the Jewish Holy Temple.
http://www.templemount.org/recent.html
As the navel is set in the centre of the human body,
so is the land of Israel the navel of the world...
situated in the centre of the world,
and Jerusalem in the centre of the land of Israel,
and the sanctuary in the centre of Jerusalem,
and the holy place in the centre of the sanctuary,
and the ark in the centre of the holy place,
and the foundation stone before the holy place,
because from it the world was founded."
Last edited by rapier on Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| What's the building in the middle of the compound-looking thing? What's the support like within the country for that? |
That is the great altar. Jews used to perform the ritual cleansing animal sacrifice here since biblical times.
The support? The cut & paste below from wikipedia may or may not be accurate, but the restoration has been a fundamental event looked forward to by jews and expected by Christians for millenia. The dome of the rock is essentially a tolerated insult to israel.
A few, very small, Jewish groups support constructing a Third Temple today, but most Jews oppose this, for a variety of reasons. Most religious Jews feel that the Temple should only be rebuilt in the messianic era, and that it would be presumptuous of people to force God's hand, as it were. Furthermore, there are many ritual impurity constrictions that are difficult to resolve, making the building's construction a practical impossibility.
Additionally, many Jews are against rebuilding the Temple due to the enormously hostile reaction from Muslims that would likely result— even were the building to be complementary to those holy to Islam currently present on the Temple Mount site, there would be high suspicion that such a building project would ultimately end with the destruction of these and the rebuilding of the Temple on its original spot.
Rebuilding the Temple in Jewish prayerbooks
Orthodox Judaism
Orthodox Judaism believes and expects that the Temple will be rebuilt and that the sacrificial services, known as the korbanot will once again be practiced with the rebuilding of a Third Temple. The article on korbanot outlines many of the references. See the section about prayers calling for the restoration of the Temple.
Conservative Judaism
Conservative Judaism has modified the prayers; their prayerbooks call for the restoration of Temple, but do not ask for resumption of animal sacrifices. Most of the passages relating to sacrifices are replaced with the Talmudic teaching that deeds of loving-kindness now atone for sin. In the central prayer, the Amidah, the Hebrew phrase na'ase ve'nakriv (we will present and sacrifice) is modified to read to asu ve'hikrivu (they presented and sacrificed), implying that animal sacrifices are a thing of the past. The petition to accept the "fire offerings of Israel" is removed.
Reform Judaism
Reform Judaism calls neither for the resumption of sacrifices nor the rebuilding of the Temple, although some new Reform prayerbooks are moving towards calling for the latter as an option. |
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bignate
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
Location: Hell's Ditch
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| No, they didn't try that 50 years ago. Jerusalem has not been an independent city-state in modern times (or any other time that I can think of). |
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PART III
City of Jerusalem
A. SPECIAL REGIME
The City of Jerusalem shall be established as a corpus separatum under a special international regime and shall be administered by the United Nations. The Trusteeship Council shall be designated to discharge the responsibilities of the Administering Authority on behalf of the United Nations. |
Perhaps I should have been clearer, it was supported and implemented, however it never came to fruition, because of the war, sorry... |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:26 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Bulsajo"]
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| You honestly see your post above as being possible? |
Entirely possible. And certain. the question is when.
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| A viable solution to the problems of the region? |
Some would see it as a solution when the new "Jewish" temple is suddenly reneged upon and transformed into a multi-faith temple to unite the world at its geographic and religious centre.
I don't see it as a solution: Human history has no real solutions. just further steps to the final destination. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:01 am Post subject: |
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Rapier, you're just another hate-filled messianic religious nut.
Nothing new or special about that, just a little surprised to see that this little corner of the internet has one, and that it turns out to be you. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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I just read this quote from an opinion piece in a newspaper. Interesting point that is being made I feel.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/614820.html
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| Yonatan Bassi, the man who dealt with the nuts and bolts of the Gaza withdrawal as head of the Disengagement Administration, has told Haaretz that he doesn't think the process can be repeated in the West Bank. He favors securing an agreement that will leave the settlers there as a Jewish minority inside a Palestinian state. Others have drawn up withdrawal maps, which bring a majority of the settlers inside Israeli territory into "settlement blocs," but the resulting border particularly in Jerusalem is so tortuous as to be almost surrealistic. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| He favors securing an agreement that will leave the settlers there as a Jewish minority inside a Palestinian state |
Is this the point you mean? |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| He favors securing an agreement that will leave the settlers there as a Jewish minority inside a Palestinian state |
Is this the point you mean? |
-in which case they will either eventually leave of their own accord, or be forced out. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, that was the main point I saw and the one that says the divides between the east and west is so torturous. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Rapier, then that would just give support to the argument that Jew and mulim can't live side by side and give support to the state of Israel existing even if muslims don't want it too. Win - Win for Israel, either Jews can stay in a state of Palestine or they need a state that is solely for the Jews. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Summer Wine wrote: |
| Rapier, then that would just give support to the argument that Jew and mulim can't live side by side and give support to the state of Israel existing even if muslims don't want it too. |
Are you assuming that the Israeli occupation of the West bank and Gaza strip is illegal- let alone of israel?
Israeli settlements are not in violation of international law. Israels administration of the territory replaced Jordan's control of the west bank and Egypts of the Gaza strip. Why didn't palestinians rise up against the "ilegal occupation" back then? |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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You as well as I know that it was because they were muslims who controlled them and not jews. Plus control from the Jordanians to the palestinians occured after a few years, not directly following the 1967 war.
Secondly, the muslim faith does not allow for the giving up of muslim land once it is originally taken or converted (note the calls for return of Spain to muslim control by extremists). This means that there will always be those who support total destruction of Israel.
The argument for Jews not being able to live in a Palestinian state would be one that the world would see and would give more support to the state of Israel. Plus, I cannot see, the rest of the nations allowing for a mass exodus of jewish Israeli's to thier countries. Thus they may be willing to support the continuation of Israel so long as a Palestinian one exists. They also MAY be willing to allow for all palestinian people and those who support a palestinian state to be transfered to Palestine in exchange for a non jewish palestine.
But who knows, the world is a very strange place with many strange factors and ideas. Just look at Daves for the real division that exists in ideas and also similarities and most of the teachers came from a similar political, ideological system. |
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