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More.... ahem...... "Teachers" busted
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Yu_Bum_suk



Joined: 25 Dec 2004

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pyongshin Sangja wrote:
Let's get back to the original article. Why do you have such a hate-on for Canadians but disregard the crimes of which these two Americans are accused? Forging college degrees can lead to a year in jail in Canada and most American states, it is a serious offence and cheapens both your academic qualifications and mine. Working on a tourist visa is seen as a lesser crime. The nature of the "improper relations with students" of which the younger of the two is accused has yet to be defined but judging from the pictures in the article, it would seem that this man may have been having sex with girls of middle-school age.

In other words, your hatred of Canadians is causing you to turn a blind eye to a child-rapist because he is an American.


"in private foreign language institutes in Seoul and Gyeonggi Province, and reportedly enjoyed improper relations with his female students. "

As far as Koreans are concerned this could mean holding hands with someone in a mothers' class. Allegedly.
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Pyongshin Sangja



Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, now you're figuring this place out.

However, it could mean also mean a whole range of things. Let's let things play out.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
and reportedly enjoyed improper relations with his female students. "



This use of 'enjoy' is one of my pet peeves with Korean English. I always want to ask, "How do you know he enjoyed it? Maybe he banged away all night, but was bored." It drives me nuts when I ask someone what they did last weekend and am told, "I enjoyed swimming".

Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I think you 'went' swimming, 'had' a picnic, 'saw' a movie, etc. Tell me the action and save 'enjoy' to tell me your emotional reaction.

ARG!!!!
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On the other hand



Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
and reportedly enjoyed improper relations with his female students. "




This use of 'enjoy' is one of my pet peeves with Korean English. I always want to ask, "How do you know he enjoyed it? Maybe he banged away all night, but was bored." It drives me nuts when I ask someone what they did last weekend and am told, "I enjoyed swimming".

Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I think you 'went' swimming, 'had' a picnic, 'saw' a movie, etc. Tell me the action and save 'enjoy' to tell me your emotional reaction.

ARG!!!!


In fairness, Koreans probably pick this up from English publications, which often use "enjoy" when the basic point being made is simply that someone participates a certain activity. For example, author bios that appear on a book's dust jacket(and the like) will often read something like:

"John Smith enjoys sports, hiking, and Spanish literature. He lives in New York City".

Now, on one level, yes, they are making a statement about John Smith's emotional state when he does these things. But I think the basic idea they're getting accross is simply that he does them.

But I agree, using "enjoy" to mean "do" is rather jarring to one's sensibilities, and should be corrected.
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JongnoGuru



Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
and reportedly enjoyed improper relations with his female students. "




This use of 'enjoy' is one of my pet peeves with Korean English. I always want to ask, "How do you know he enjoyed it? Maybe he banged away all night, but was bored." It drives me nuts when I ask someone what they did last weekend and am told, "I enjoyed swimming".

Well, I'm glad you enjoyed it, but I think you 'went' swimming, 'had' a picnic, 'saw' a movie, etc. Tell me the action and save 'enjoy' to tell me your emotional reaction.

ARG!!!!


In fairness, Koreans probably pick this up from English publications, which often use "enjoy" when the basic point being made is simply that someone participates a certain activity. For example, author bios that appear on a book's dust jacket(and the like) will often read something like:

"John Smith enjoys sports, hiking, and Spanish literature. He lives in New York City".

Now, on one level, yes, they are making a statement about John Smith's emotional state when he does these things. But I think the basic idea they're getting accross is simply that he does them.

But I agree, using "enjoy" to mean "do" is rather jarring to one's sensibilities, and should be corrected.

They say "enjoy" in English all the time because they say "enjoy" in Korean all the time.

"Did you enjoy lunch, Guru?"
"No, it was pretty average."
"Really? Miss Park and I enjoyed bibimbap. Yummy!"
"Last Friday I enjoyed beer and soju. I enjoyed and enjoyed them. Too much soju enjoyment, I fear. Saturday wasn't very enjoyable"

enjoy

1 ���� ����; �������� �������� ���,
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spidey112233



Joined: 21 Jul 2005

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well i have an easy fix to the visa problems. like many have said, these days, the colleges/univ. have lowered their standards somewhat, and many can graduate in sewing and baby-sitting for all i know. what if the diploma had to ACTUALLY be related to English or what have you. wouldn't that make sense?? i mean, it seems kind easy to let ANYONE with a bach.degree teach english, when they had NO experience teaching before coming here. including myself. i guess i shouldnt be here then, haha! i never ever thought about teaching english in my university down the road and im sure a majority never thought that as well. so where was my training before i came? i didnt have any Smile
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pet lover



Joined: 02 Jan 2004
Location: not in Seoul

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To address a point made somewhere or another in this thread, I don't think that the Korean government EVER made the claim that someone with a bachelor's degree is a well-qualified person. Someone who possesses a bachelor's degree has the bare MINIMUM qualification. Naturally, if you show two teachers to the Korean government, one who has a bachelor's in geography and one who has a bachelor's in English, an MA in early childhood education, years of experience in teaching, well, jeesh, who do YOU think the government will consider to be the better qualified? Having a bachelor's degree is one of those bare minimum qualifications that the government wants teachers to have. They have the right to enforce that. Having the correct visa is a bare minimum qualification that the government wants teachers to have. They have the right to enforce that. What do you think would happen if a foreign worker in YOUR native country started working at a job for which he was not deemed qualified in the eyes of governement and/or didn't have the proper work visa? You think that person is going to be hailed with cheers and rose petals thrown at his/her feet? Naa, it's far more likely that immigration will eventually catch up to them.

And as for the crap that they don't enforce their policies across the board (this being based on the fact that some people get away with breaking the law), well, I just have to say, show me a country where the governement can prevent everyone in it from breaking a law. I don't think that even a tightly ruled country like North Korea has managed to achieve that.
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bosintang



Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: In the pot with the rest of the mutts

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spidey112233 wrote:
well i have an easy fix to the visa problems. like many have said, these days, the colleges/univ. have lowered their standards somewhat, and many can graduate in sewing and baby-sitting for all i know. what if the diploma had to ACTUALLY be related to English or what have you. wouldn't that make sense?? i mean, it seems kind easy to let ANYONE with a bach.degree teach english, when they had NO experience teaching before coming here. including myself. i guess i shouldnt be here then, haha! i never ever thought about teaching english in my university down the road and im sure a majority never thought that as well. so where was my training before i came? i didnt have any Smile


It's supply and demand. It would be unrealistic to expect everyone teaching in Korea to have a background in education or linguistics because there's simply not enough people with those kind of backgrounds willing to live and work here. Furthermore, if a school was organised (hah!) and had a good system in place, it would only be overkill.

Either way, this is a moot point. The people caught on the tourist visas are facing probably little more than a fine and deportation. They flaunted immigration laws and they got caught. Fair enough.

The two guys who falsified their credentials are another story altogether. It doesn't matter if they were the best teachers in the world, they misrepresented themselves and defrauded their employers and the government. It's hard to feel sympathy for their skills as teachers when they're con artists.
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Tiberious aka Sparkles



Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulsajo wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:

Derrek, why do you insist on making yourself look silly?

Because it's what he does best.


That and creeping out high school girls.

Sparkles*_*
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rumpolestitskin



Joined: 12 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spidey112233 wrote:
well i have an easy fix to the visa problems. like many have said, these days, the colleges/univ. have lowered their standards somewhat, and many can graduate in sewing and baby-sitting for all i know. what if the diploma had to ACTUALLY be related to English or what have you. wouldn't that make sense?? i mean, it seems kind easy to let ANYONE with a bach.degree teach english, when they had NO experience teaching before coming here. including myself. i guess i shouldnt be here then, haha! i never ever thought about teaching english in my university down the road and im sure a majority never thought that as well. so where was my training before i came? i didnt have any Smile


I think a minimum age requirement might be a good way to weedle out what I see as a high percentage of bad teachers. Alot more young people seem to find teaching here difficult compared to those that are older.

I'm not saying that all young people suck at teaching. Just that I see lots who say they suck and find it hard.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From Chosun Ilbo's Sunday edition:


Dishonest Teachers to Be Blacklisted

Teachers found guilty of abuses like leaking test questions, committing sex crimes against minors, or taking bribes will be thrown out of the profession for good, the Education Ministry announced Sunday. Currently dishonest teachers can seek re-employment in the job after three to five years.
The ministry said Sunday it will change the Educational Workers Law to permanently blacklist unfit teachers. It prepared the change after talks with teachers' groups and parents.

The ministry initially wanted to include teachers who use excessive physical discipline but changed its mind after criticism that this would severely restrict the activities of teachers in the classroom. Instead, they face severe reprimands if they incur civil or criminal charges over verbal or physical violence.

To ensure fairness in designating teachers unfit, the ministry will set up advisory committees composed of teachers and parents under the local offices of education.

([email protected] )
*********

So it is not just foreigners being targeted. There seems to be a government campaign to clean up the teaching industry. Can't say it's a bad thing.
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rumpolestitskin wrote:
Hollywoodaction wrote:
rumpolestitskin wrote:
Hollywoodaction wrote:


Hmm... So are saying you only have a high school diploma?

rumpolestitskin wrote:

And I'm fairly sure that there are people out there with no college education that are better teachers than me; a person with 2 degree's.


Hollywoodaction wrote:

I believe the correct term to describe them is 'college educated'. But, what do I know? I'm just a space cadet with a worthless grad school diploma.

Well at least that��s something thing we both agree on.

One of the main reasons to go to college is to learn and demonstrate Analytical skill (the art of looking at what somebody wrote and drawing the relevant information and conclusions form it). Yet you seem to be oblivious to me having two degree's. Like I said previously - I don't think college education is what it used to be. I think far too many people graduate simply because college's have lowered the standard.


Well, had you possessed any analytical skills, you would have known the first sentence was meant as a joke. So, yes, I agree. There are people with degrees who lack intelligence...even some with two. You couldn't have made your point any clearer.


Thats not excatly how what you wrote read. Maybe you should start tagging your jokes <joke>Insert joke here</joke>


Okay. <joke>rumpolestitskin</joke>. Done.
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