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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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OCOKA Dude
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| Gord wrote: |
| If this statement were true, then this forum would have far fewer people saying "I"m Asian and haven't found a job after lookings for weeks/months!" |
I think you'll find that the results are mixed -- some have no problem finding esl jobs, some take weeks to find a suitable one, some take months. Whether this has anything to do with the color of one's skin is anybody's guess, in the same way that one's persistence, one's job-hunting ability, one's resourcefulness also come into play. That you conclude that race is the sole factor in preventing some people from finding a job is irrational.
| Gord wrote: |
| Make no mistake, it's rarely done under "Caucasians are better teachers" but rather the parents want to see Caucasians as it underscores the claim that the foreign teacher really is a foreigner and not some Korean who may or may not speak English well as well as parents wanting their kids to interact with a foreigner for motivation and other venues. |
This is the standard line coming out of the mouths of esl recruiters and whites who hire for hagowns -- that the "parents want to see Caucasians" teaching their kids. Of course this is just an excuse for maintaining racially discriminatory practices that are perpetuated not by Koreans, but by whites within the esl industry who want to protect their jobs (and many times their deceptive practices), from all knowing Gyopos, who are usually more adept than native Koreans at smelling out a rat. Also, b/c Gyopos tend to be vastly better and more popular teachers, by not hiring them, many white esl teachers are in fact trying to maintain a status quo where the competition has been effectively eliminated.
| Gord wrote: |
| He was saying that all things being equal in education and work history, a Caucasian will get the job over an Asian. |
Of course this is total bull. No such statement or suggestion to this effect was made. This is your own conjecture, which btw, is devoid of any evidence. So go on, you're really entertaining, if not somewhat delusional.
| Gord wrote: |
| And it's true. You throw me in a room against twenty other random Asians of roughly equal backgrounds or even slightly better, and the job will be mine. To deny that is to say that you and the Easter Bunny went on a double date with the Tooth Fairy and her cuter, younger sister last night. |
My God you are arrogant. I'm assuming you're comparing yourself with other Asian Americans. That you think you could get any ESL job simply based on the fact that you're white may have had some validity in the past. However, things are changing as all things do in Korea. Trends are short-lived, beliefs change and attitudes become different over time, especially in the face of time and people's collective experiences. I guarantee you that the free-ride for whitey in Korea is changing as we speak. Don't hang on to your whiteness as guaranteeing anything in the future in Korea. It'll be shortlived at best. In the meantime, get over yourself and admit that Gyopos will always give you the run for your money. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:41 am Post subject: |
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There is another reason for the the racial preference for "white-European" English teachers in Korea. This has been explained to me by parents and adult students: Koreans want to have, and they want their children to have, the experience of dealing with "whitey" so they will be habituated, comfortable and not shy around these foreigners. Sure, they could learn English from qualified Asians but they want the total experience.
This would seem practical (albeit racist).
If ya wanna be a pig farmer, ya gotta spend some time with pigs. |
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Gord
Joined: 25 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| OCOKA Dude wrote: |
| I think you'll find that the results are mixed -- some have no problem finding esl jobs, some take weeks to find a suitable one, some take months. Whether this has anything to do with the color of one's skin is anybody's guess, in the same way that one's persistence, one's job-hunting ability, one's resourcefulness also come into play. That you conclude that race is the sole factor in preventing some people from finding a job is irrational. |
Have you ever talked to a recruiter on the level to ask what how the busines runs? Seriously? Two of my friends that I socialize with on a regular basis are recruiters. In addition, two of my friends whose homes I visit on a regular basis own schools (including one with upwards of a thousand students).
And they say that it's the parents who expect whitey. They would prefer to hire fluent Koreans or people on F4 visas simply because it's cheaper to accomplish and the same job gets done, but the parents won't go for it as when they sign up at a school with foreigners, they expect the foreigners.
If the parents didn't want that, they would just enroll in the English schools with do not offer foreign teachers which too are quite common.
And to back this up even more, let's look at this forum: Most people who are white in this forum say that they had no problem getting job offers. Millions, billions perhaps. Yet a common theme with people who are Asian is "they saw my picture and that was it."
| Quote: |
| This is the standard line coming out of the mouths of esl recruiters and whites who hire for hagowns -- that the "parents want to see Caucasians" teaching their kids. Of course this is just an excuse for maintaining racially discriminatory practices that are perpetuated not by Koreans, but by whites within the esl industry who want to protect their jobs (and many times their deceptive practices), from all knowing Gyopos, who are usually more adept than native Koreans at smelling out a rat. Also, b/c Gyopos tend to be vastly better and more popular teachers, by not hiring them, many white esl teachers are in fact trying to maintain a status quo where the competition has been effectively eliminated. |
This might be true if the industry wasn't already dominated by English schools which are primarily staffed by only Korean teachers. It's not as though "whitie" has anything to protect as we're the minority anyway. People primarily pay us because they want the foreigner, not because our English is that much better.
But while we are on the subject, it's not racially discriminatory as no one is saying Caucasians are better teachers, but rather people want to interact with Caucasian teachers which you file under racially prejedice.
| Gord wrote: |
| Of course this is total bull. No such statement or suggestion to this effect was made. This is your own conjecture, which btw, is devoid of any evidence. So go on, you're really entertaining, if not somewhat delusional. |
Is your English broken? He said: "You will need more relevant qualifications when compared to a 'whitey'" And that's true. Two people with the same qualifications applying for the same job with the same money, the job will go to the Caucasian when the school is looking to hire a foreign teacher.
Same time, there are a metric ton of jobs open to people on F4s to make the same money as us as they get the same rights as citizens, but those jobs require serious related education requirements instead of "degree in basketweaving? Might be fake? Come on in!"
| Quote: |
| My God you are arrogant. I'm assuming you're comparing yourself with other Asian Americans. That you think you could get any ESL job simply based on the fact that you're white may have had some validity in the past. |
All other things being equal, then yes, the the job would be mine.
| Quote: |
| However, things are changing as all things do in Korea. Trends are short-lived, beliefs change and attitudes become different over time, especially in the face of time and people's collective experiences. I guarantee you that the free-ride for whitey in Korea is changing as we speak. Don't hang on to your whiteness as guaranteeing anything in the future in Korea. It'll be shortlived at best. In the meantime, get over yourself and admit that Gyopos will always give you the run for your money. |
Let me get this straight, you spent this large post telling me everything I know is wrong, back it up with nothing and say that everything that backs up my claims simply does not exist. Then in your last line you agree with me that Caucasians are more likely to be hired and that your entire argument was that IN THE FUTURE things might change.
Well, since you've agreed with me, all you have to do is say thank-you for opening your mind. And we can revisit this thread in a few years to see if what you hope has changed in the industry has come true. |
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