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Is it time for the US to end its BS hatred for Cuba?
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

soviet_man wrote:
...if he can be critisized for anything, it is that he hasn't gone even further ideologically with building socialism.


That's because he falls more into the category of your standard Latin American caudillo than your hard-charging Marxist-Leninist.

His power rests, in part, on an extreme form of yanquifobia, not Marxism-Leninism. They overlap, esp. where "antiimperialism" is concerned, but they aren't the same thing at all...
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee



Joined: 25 May 2003

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gopher wrote:
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote:
...he pretty much falied to export his revolution to other nations...


I missed this earlier, Joo.

What about the Sandinistas? El Salvador's FMLN nearly won, only a very politically costly program of U.S. military aid prevented that. Several Latin American states (namely Argentina and Chile) are, in one way or another, still dealing witht the consequences of the era of the Cuban Revolution (and reaction). Castro also did a hell of a lot of damage in Africa...


I was saying he tried to but he failed - in the end.

The Sandanistas were in power but they are out of power now. EL Salvdors FMLN nearly won but now the civil war there is over and the communists are far from winning.

Yes Castro did a lot of damage in Africa, but communism as a political force in the world is no longer a big threat anymore.

In that way Castro lost.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most historians would agree with that, that by 1991 his era was over as a force of influence. (Pinochet was forced to step down and Chile began returning to normal and the Sandinistas also stepped down.)

But I'm not sure that his primary goal was to spread Communism as much as it seems to have been to defeat U.S. policy in any quarter...

setting aside the Missile Crisis, if you look at the entire pattern of U.S. reaction to fidelismo: the Alliance for Progress; the counterinsurgency programs; the special task forces to assassinate him, bring him down, or just harass him; the related covert operations; the support for military govts in Brazil, Chile, Central America, and others; the invasion of Grenada; all of the political and bureaucratic backlash, including a long series of Congressional hearings...

I think that he scored major direct and indirect hits that cost the U.S. dearly in funds and especially political capital -- especially in Latin America.

In that respect he has been something of a success: he destablizied the U.S. position in Latin America (Washington, of course, undermined itself, too), even if he failed to unite Latin America under his leadership like he (and now Chavez) dreamed of.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone else besides me nostalgic for the days of exploding cigars and poisoned wet suits? Even a little bit?
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You forgot the dart gun...(a couple decades before my time, though).
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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 4:13 am    Post subject: Re: Is it time for the US to end its BS hatred for Cuba? Reply with quote

Pligganease wrote:
Being that:


b) The US already does a huge amount of business with communist China..


Change that to'b1) The US did billions of dollars in business with Cuba between 1980 and 1992."

http://www.cubatrade.org/cong2000.html

"Between 1980 and the end of 1992, for example, the value of United States-owned foreign subsidiaries' trade, licensed by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the United States Department of the Treasury and by the Bureau of Export Administration (BXA) of the United States Department of Commerce, with enterprises within the Republic of Cuba, was US$4.563 billion, a relatively small percentage of the Republic of Cuba��s total trade during the twelve-year period."

and "b2) Surprise, surprise. The US and Cuba are trading again."

http://globalization.about.com/od/bigstories/a/cubaembargo.htm


The embargo against Cuba will be lifted sooner than you think.
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Cthulhu



Joined: 02 Feb 2003

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Is it time for the US to end its BS hatred for Cuba? Reply with quote

Hollywoodaction wrote:

The embargo against Cuba will be lifted sooner than you think.


This would have to happen rather subtly. I rather doubt any Republican (and a lot of Democrats as well) are going to take credit for it. Lifting the embargo and taking credit for it might make sense but politically speaking (*cough*Florida*cough*) it is suicide.
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