Korean Job Discussion Forums

[kiwifruit]

I bet you all that bars in the US, Canada and wherever in the western world discriminate every goddamn day about who they let in.

In fact there was an instance in my country (New Zealand) a while back at a snobby bar in downtown Auckland, where a guy was refused entry because he had tattoes. He was dressed nicely, but the owner was in the newspapers claiming that he owned the bar he could let in whoever the hell he wanted. He was very vehement. And guess what? He won! This same argument that you are all having about Korea took place in an extremely western and politically correct country. I have been in Korea for 3 years and been refused from one place. It was one of those ajashi/ageshi pick up joints I think. In fact when I think about it I have been refused entry into bars in my home city regularly because my groups were predominantly male and there were too many males already in the club or because we didn't look 'cool' enough. You all must have had that happen at some stage. What is the difference with Korea?

We didn't picket outside those clubs, write letters to the local paper and boycott them, we just moved along to one of the other 100 clubs in Auckland.

A lot of bars are always on a knife edge financially and they can't afford to have a constantly evolving clientiele. These places like to have a constant kind of 'scene'. It is the Korean way, to go into a place knowing what it will be like inside. Koreans don't like chaos and wild cultural extremes, we all know that. They are very conservative by our standards.

While I don't particularly like people being refused entry based on race, dress etc there is not much we can do about it. If you are really worried then open your own bar and invite every single person that shows up at the door. I imagine that after a while you would start becoming the owner that disgusts you at the moment.

peace out y'all
j

[slothrop]

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[samy]

atina, lets not boycott Korea, how about some of us making an intelligent, positive contribution to Korea by making a stand against unacceptable social practices such as discrimination.
Joseph, the owner of Hollywood upstairs is a good guy and we enjoy his hospitality but he has nothing to do with the place downstairs.
Saharzie, there is no anti Korean tyrade nor has there been any generalisation about Koreans being racist.
Nathaneal, I notice no one has responded to your posting, I bet there are some that thing that you shouldn`t have a white girlfriend in the first place and you should live with the consequences of your cross cultural relationship.
WilliamB, `claiming that other societies should be like ours`, what exactly is our culture like? as per many postings on this thread I notice that `our society` doesn`t care too much about discrimination as long as they are not affected by it.

[samy]

I was one the guys that was not allowed into the `meat market`, by the way, I was with my wife.

[Shai]

If this is the case , then why are the non-white men allowed in with a white male? These non-white men are also allowed in when business is not jumping.....

[kiwifruit]

Read my post up above. Are all you dudes and dudettes gonna start jumping up and down when you go back home and notice the same thing happens there? I doubt it.

[Shai]

It is amazing how most of you are satisfied with the discriminatory issues here in Korea. There are hundreds of non-white soldiers in Korea.....'you' are important enough to fight and die for this country if needs be but hey, to go to a club you just ain't important enough but don't let that get you down because that's just the way it is in this country and you should feel good because there are some locals are also treated this way.

Absolute bull !!!!

[samy]

`Evil prospers when good people do nothing`
If we`re good people lets stand and be counted and do something, however small. If you feel that this entire issue isn`t importatnt at all, don`t make comments about others accepting discrimination and why they should. Don`t give reasons or make excuses for it. I`m glad that Derrek has openly said, after a while, that discrimination really doesn`t bother him and he will continue to frequent Hollywood Basement. This is what we need. More people that are honest enough to stand by what they believe. Good going Derrek.
Zyzyfer, racial discrimination may be a fact of the country but does that imply that foreigners have to start accepting, practicing and condoning it.
Starting my own exclusive club, come on Derrek surely you are able to see by now that a bigger issue is being addressed

[JackSarang]

To the two guys bitching about Hollywood Basement... tell the full story. All you've said is you were refused entry and that you're non-white. Were you drunk, rowdy, obnoxious?

Here is the real scoop on the Hollywood Basement -- the only people who are reguarly refused entrance there are native, older, korean men in groups. If you've ever been inside, then you know its full of whites, blacks, indians, koreans, whatever. Hollywood has no problem allowing American Servicemen in. But they have an excellent relationship with the MP's and will refuse GI's breaking curfew. I often were a cap when I'm out and numerous times entering Hollywood I've been asked to take it off so they can check for the buzzcut. One night when the MP's were doing a walk-through I was even asked for ID from them.

Why are Korean men refused entrance? The same reason white-men are refused entrance at most Korean nightclubs when they are unescorted. Hollywood Basement is basically full of ex-pats and Korean girls. Like it or not, when Korean men are in groups and alcohol is involved they cause trouble when "their women" are involved. They don't like seeing foreign men with korean girls and they often start crap about it. They refuse foreign men entrance to their nightclubs but have no problem accepting foreign women.

Now, if the two guys refused entrance weren't korean, they there is something else to your story. Because Hollywood doesn't discriminate against any other race. They don't even discriminate by race, young korean men are routinely allowed in... just not in large groups, and definately not if they fit the "ajoshi"-look stereotype. And good for them. Its good business, because they're avoiding the inevitable trouble before it starts. Last weekend I was in Hongdae and a young Korean girl was dancing with a black GI. Five minutes later, some jackoff Korean-guy with the backing of his friends was causing trouble for this kid just because he had the "nerve" to be dancing with a korean girl. And it wasn't the Korean guy who was eventually told to leave.

So hey, cry foul all you want. If I go to Apkujong on Saturday night, dressed to the nines and flashing cash yet still refused entry to a night club, will you take up arms to boycott the racist establishment? No? Oh, I see. Carry on then. Nevermind the fact that I don't start fights if I see a caucasian girl dancing with a korean man.

[kiwifruit]

You know what Samy? The owners don't want certain people in their bar and the regulars in there obviously don't want certain people in the bar, so why would those people want to go and sit somewhere that they are not wanted?

It's a private place just like a mall is. Malls don't let skaters and bums hang out in them. My friend wrote his goddamn thesis on private spaces and the public access to them in western countries. Unfortunately the freedom of movement is not in effect. We do not have the right to demand entry onto private property apart from rare exceptions.

I love Rage Against The Machine and their message as much as anyone, but his issue is very technical when it involves private space. There are far more obvious and less condonable (is that a word?) cases of racism to worry about. If someone calls you a bleepin bleep on a public street then smack their lights out.

Viva Zapata!

j

[william beckerson]

[J.B. Clamence]

[william beckerson]

[Zyzyfer]

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

This thread is hopeless.

Here are the facts:

If you own a house, and you say to someone, "Hey. I do not want you in my house" then there is NOTHING you can do about it.

The same applies to private businesses.

No one says they like it. But that is the way it is.

Why do some people have pickles in their shoes or this simple issue? Stop trying to make it so complicated....