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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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French Prisons Teeming With Muslims
Muslims reportedly make up some 70 percent of a total of 60,775 prisoners in France.
By Hadi Yahmid, IOL Correspondent
PARIS, June 19, 2005 (IslamOnline.net) – French prisons are teeming with Muslims, a phenomenon chaplains and sociologists blame on marginalization and towering poverty and unemployment rates among the Muslim minority.
��It really harms the image of Islam and Muslims in France that prisons are teeming with Muslims,�� Mamdo Sango, a Muslim chaplain, told IslamOnline.net.
Iranian-French researcher Farhad Khosrokhavar said in his recently published book Islam in Prisons that Muslims make up some 70 percent of a total of 60,775 prisoners in France.
As ethnicity-based censuses are banned in France, he said complexion, names and religious traditions like prohibition of pork indicate that Muslims constitute an overwhelming majority in prisons.
Khosrokhavar also noted that Islam has become a sought-after religion in prisons with a Christian prisoner asking prison authorities to provide him with halal meat almost on a weekly basis.
Afro-French Sango, for his part, complained about a severe shortage in the number of Muslim chaplains in French prisons.
��I have to move from a prison to another on Fridays to meet the religious needs of Muslims prisoners,�� he said.
There are only 69 Muslim chaplains in a total of 185 prisons, a figure which is dwarfed by 500 Catholic chaplains.
France is home to some six to seven Muslims, the largest Muslim minority in Europe.
Failed Policies
Although none of the French Muslim organizations approached by IOL had a clear answer to the mind-boggling phenomenon, some heaped blame on failed integration policies.
��The successive French governments failed to come up with a successful integration policy,�� said Ammar Al-Asfar, a Muslim prison chaplain.
Asfar, who doubles as the prison affairs official at the umbrella French Council for Muslim Faith (CFCM), said French governments should have adopted programs putting all French citizens on equal footing.
��Young French Muslims are more vulnerable to fall prey to depression and suffer the grave consequences of academic failure and family break-up,�� he told IOL.
Sociologists and French Muslim leaders further hold racism and discrimination as the root cause of unemployment and crime rates among the Muslim minority.
French Muslims and Arabs are pinning high hopes on the appointment of a Muslim of Algerian origin as junior minister in charge of equal opportunity under the new cabinet of Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin.
Azouz Begag, 48, has already gained the reputation of being a fighter for equality and a struggler against all sorts of discrimination.
A Sorbonne research released earlier in the year by the French Observatory Against Racism found that Arab names and dark complexion represent an obstacle to jobseekers.
The ��Discrimination at Workplace�� research said that the organization sent 325 CVs of competitive applicants, who only differ in names and origin, to find that the opportunity for North African applicants to get a job is five times less than natives.
Fanaticism
French analysts further warned that prisons might be a breeding ground for extremists.
They cited the case of a young Muslim, Khaled Khilkhal, who was blamed by the authorities of involvement in terrorist operations.
Some experts claim he was influenced by extremist ideas in prison though he used to lead an extravagant life before serving time.
Secretary of State to the Rights of the Victims Nicole Guedi has also warned that fanaticism was gaining ground among Muslim prisoners, mostly aged 18-35.
Prison authorities have even become phobic about rising fanaticism in prisons to the extent that they sometimes deny Muslim prisoners the right to have prayer rugs, Asfar said.
��It is paradoxical that prison authorities seek the help of those so-called extremist prisoners to maintain public order when quarrels erupt as they are revered by most of the prisoners,�� he noted.
In April, the Fleury-Merogis prison in south Paris punished a Muslim prisoner with eight days in solitary confinement for performing a congregational prayer.
The Administrative Court in Versailles, however, did the prisoner justice and reaffirmed his right to practice his religion. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:22 am Post subject: |
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While i'm not clear on the exact figures, i'm confident the same case scenario applies to both Canada's aboriginal & AmeriKa's black prison population.
Highly disproportionate scales of "justice". |
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Leslie Cheswyck
Joined: 31 May 2003
Location: University of Western Chile
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:45 am Post subject: |
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| It's a shame things like gang rape, honor killing, drug dealing, and carjacking have not yet been legalized. But, who knows, maybe with more progressive legislation we can rectify the situation. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, it's all a conspiracy to stick muslims in jail! The poor darlings can't possibly be guilty of anything! |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:02 am Post subject: |
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| Leslie Cheswyck wrote: |
| They're in prison because they got caught. |
Most in the west are in prison because their actions have been branded a crime. Do you know how many people are locked away simply for having a natural green leafy substance on their person, or in their homes or gardens?
What if alcohol "prohibition" were still in place? How would this affect swell of prison populations? If eating Kimchi were outlawed in Korea you can bet most of the nation's citizens would be facing hard jail time.
Also, most of the world's wealthy white-collar crooks generally have the resources to hire "slick Willie" lawyers to help them once again weasel out of any all too uncomfortable situation.
Notwithstanding rapes or murders, false imprisonment, including scores of illegitimate "drug" related "crimes" helps to maintain these numbers at an artificially inflated level.
Then again, maybe private prisons for profit, housing vast numbers of the poor is the best approach to "justice" after all  |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:12 am Post subject: |
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| Do you know how many people are locked away simply for having a natural green leafy substance on their person, or in their homes or gardens? |
Tough. It's still a crime. Don't want to end up in prison, don't buy or sell drugs. Simple.
Still, you have no actual evidence for your statement that muslims and whites in France face differing scales of justice. Even if you did, I doubt it would in any way explain such a gross overrepresentation of people in jail.
Remember folks, minorities must be shown in a positive light at all times. To not do so is evidence of an 'institutionally racist' society. Either that, or muslims in France are committing more crimes than whites. Or is that just too simplistic? |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| There's quite a big difference in the amount of justice a person receives depending on how much they earn. I remember Dr. Phil talking about that. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
| There's quite a big difference in the amount of justice a person receives depending on how much they earn. I remember Dr. Phil talking about that. |
Hmmmmm ... that's interesting. Maybe Dr. Phil isn't so bad then after all  |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Phil is super smart. He started a legal consulting business in 1989 or so with a friend of his that was successful enough to be hired by Oprah Winfrey herself when they were being sued for something, which is how he was discovered in the first place. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Remember folks, minorities must be shown in a positive light at all times. To not do so is evidence of an 'institutionally racist' society. Either that, or muslims in France are committing more crimes than whites. Or is that just too simplistic? |
Actually, it probably is. I won't whitewash Islam or the average Muslim here, but I will say that in America cops are far more likely to act aggressively towards a black man than a white man. This means that if a 35-year-old white mom with kids in the back of her SUV is pulled over for speeding, it probably ends there. But if two black males under the age of 30 are found speeding, they're probably asked to exit the vehicle. I expect there is quite a bit of the same kind of attitude in France towards the Muslims living there. It doesn't help that a disproportionate amount of blacks are in American prisons, and that a disproportionate amount of Muslims are in French prisons.
Are Muslims in France committing more crimes proportionaly than whites? Perhaps. Are the cops in France more likely to be thorough when handling Muslims? I'd say its a good guess. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| But if two black males under the age of 30 are found speeding, they're probably asked to exit the vehicle. |
Which, when based on your average officer's experience with young black males, as opposed to soccer mums, is probably a good idea. It is ludicrous to suggest that when dealing with crime, the police should treat everyone with equal levels of suspicion. In fact, that is positively dangerous. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 10:42 am Post subject: |
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A separatist, non-integratable population that simulatanously resents, dissaproves of, and exploits its hosts.
They don't view western law as legitimate. they don't respect it. Algerians and Tunisians etc are still brought up with hatred of france, a collective resentment of colonial times.
I know: I've spent time in France, i've met Arabs there. i know their mindset. No crime is unjustified to them: they are living in a land of infidels, that they believe stole from and exploited them in colonial times: they don't care what they do! I've seen them spit at little white kids in the street, or talk about breaking into houses and say its only fair as france stole their country's resources etc. They exist on profits from drugs, smuggling, and pimping.
Of course they commit the most crime!. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Remember folks, minorities must be shown in a positive light at all times. To not do so is evidence of an 'institutionally racist' society. Either that, or muslims in France are committing more crimes than whites. Or is that just too simplistic? |
Actually, it probably is. I won't whitewash Islam or the average Muslim here, but I will say that in America cops are far more likely to act aggressively towards a black man than a white man. This means that if a 35-year-old white mom with kids in the back of her SUV is pulled over for speeding, it probably ends there. But if two black males under the age of 30 are found speeding, they're probably asked to exit the vehicle. I expect there is quite a bit of the same kind of attitude in France towards the Muslims living there. It doesn't help that a disproportionate amount of blacks are in American prisons, and that a disproportionate amount of Muslims are in French prisons.
Are Muslims in France committing more crimes proportionaly than whites? Perhaps. Are the cops in France more likely to be thorough when handling Muslims? I'd say its a good guess. |
The frustrating thing is I'm a white man who has had to step out of his car for searches, dog sniffers, and everything else you can imagine.. so sometimes when I hear of someone non-white saying he's targeted.. I wonder.. do they know that white people go through the same things? The big difference is I didn't get busted for anything.. but I still go through car searches, exiting the vehicle, and dog sniffers as well.
Granted if I was a white soccer mom with a station wagon it might be different.. but I wasn't.. I was just a young white man driving a car 5-10 miles over the speed limit or a broken tail light or whatever else. But the attitude and procedures from the police are exactly the same. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
They don't view western law as legitimate. they don't respect it. Algerians and Tunisians etc are still brought up with hatred of france, a collective resentment of colonial times.
I know: I've spent time in France, i've met Arabs there. i know their mindset. No crime is unjustified to them: they are living in a land of infidels, that they believe stole from and exploited them in colonial times: they don't care what they do! I've seen them spit at little white kids in the street, or talk about breaking into houses and say its only fair as france stole their country's resources etc. They exist on profits from drugs, smuggling, and pimping.
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Brought up with a hatred for france??
I confess I've never met an algerian in my life, but met plenty of Tunisians and Moroccans; can't recall one time any of them bashed France. |
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