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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:29 pm Post subject: Pakistan President: Cry rape and get rich in Canada! |
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The Pakistan president commented this week that many in his country felt crying rape was an easy way to make money and move to Canada. President Musharraf's remarks have been condemned by Prime Minister Paul Martin, Amnesty International and the woman whose case brought the issue to the world's attention.
This week, in an interview with the Washington Post newspaper, President Pervez Musharraf spoke about the case of Mukhtar Mai, a 33-year-old illiterate woman who went public about having been gang-raped on the orders of a village council in 2002. Her brother, then 12, was judged to have befriended a woman of a powerful clan.
Mai won public sympathy and government support after she demanded that the men be charged and convicted. But earlier this year Musharraf angered the Bush administration when he blocked Mai from traveling to the United States to publicize the case.
Musharraf then was quoted in the Post as follows: "You must understand the environment in Pakistan. This has become a moneymaking concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada or citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped."
On Thursday, Musharraf was reported to have told a New York news conference that he had been expressing a commonly held opinion rather than his own.
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| lovely. i do believe his explanation but what a dumb comment to make regardless of the context. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2005 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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Funny.. but pretty much true.
An ex-girlfriend of mine use to work for an NGO in New York.. their organization was based on 'female genital mutilation' in Northern Africa (Sudan, Somalia, etc.)
Anyhow.. they were constantly trying to figure out which cases were legit or not.. plus people would get to the US somehow (student or something).. and then start making claims how if they went back after their studies they might be a victim of FGM.. and needed amnesty, etc., etc.
Just a complete mess! Canada seems to even much less lenient or less thorough laws in that regards.. it seems like the US actually goes through lengthy procedures checking those things out.
The funny thing is about those things is there are TONS of people trying to emigrate to the West.. and short of winning the lottery.. they will use just about anything and everything at their disposable to try to get in.. and thats a damn good one (and extremely difficult to prove it didn't happen or won't happen as the person trying to emigrate will try to fudge or exaggerate the realities, etc.) |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:15 am Post subject: Re: Pakistan President: Cry rape and get rich in Canada! |
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| Alias wrote: |
| On Thursday, Musharraf was reported to have told a New York news conference that he had been expressing a commonly held opinion rather than his own. |
Hmmmmmm ... interesting if that's the case. He would seem to be seriously contradicting himself. I just watched him respond to this matter on CNN & he claimed it was said by someone in the room at the time, & that the media on hand had mistakenly attributed it to him. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:22 am Post subject: |
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I had a friend in high school whose mother worked as an immigration lawyer in Toronto. My friend was reading through some of the claims for refugee status at her mother's office one day and she got really upset by the horrific stories the clients had written on their claims. Rape, FGM, watching their entire family be murdered in the most disturbing ways, etc, etc.
My friend's mother told her not to worry - almost all of them were made-up or exaggerated. The more tears you can get with your claim, the higher the chances.
Having said that, it seems fairly clear that the well-known rape cases coming out of Pakistan recently - esepcially Mukhtar Mai - are legit. If they want to come to Canada, that's fine with me. Our birth rate is nowhere near the level needed to sustain the current population, which is too low as it is. Without substantial immigration, the CPP and OHIP and programs like that could be facing some serious trouble in the future. |
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Red
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Musharraf wrote: |
| You must understand the environment in Pakistan. |
A military dictatorship that hides terrorists and is filled with religious nutjobs who think throwing acid in a woman's face is a good way to keep her from thinking sexy thoughts about other men? |
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ronin
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Red wrote: |
| Musharraf wrote: |
| You must understand the environment in Pakistan. |
A military dictatorship that hides terrorists and is filled with religious nutjobs who think throwing acid in a woman's face is a good way to keep her from thinking sexy thoughts about other men? |
1) Biggest Terrorist is Bush as proven time and time again.
2) Throwing acid in women�s faces? Yeah maybe 0.1% of the population has done this. And I guess murdering your pregnant wife is a great example of American men? (Scott Peterson)
3) Yes rape and crime does happen in Pakistan like it happens in countries like the U.S. CANADA and the UK just take a look at those wonderful Catholic priests that molested all of those boys! Wow great example for the rest of the world!
4) In Pakistan women takes the bus with men, they wear jeans and walk around with make up and the latest fashions. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Ronin, I think the difference is that in Pakistan a woman can be proscecuted for BEING raped, and in the Mai case, can be ordered raped as a punishment. You are correct, this is not a everyday standard occurance and is not representative of the views of the majority of Pakistani men, but rape is seen quite differently in Pakistan than in the west in a way which is harmful to women. |
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Red
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| ronin wrote: |
| Red wrote: |
| Musharraf wrote: |
| You must understand the environment in Pakistan. |
A military dictatorship that hides terrorists and is filled with religious nutjobs who think throwing acid in a woman's face is a good way to keep her from thinking sexy thoughts about other men? |
1) Biggest Terrorist is Bush as proven time and time again. |
I'm the last person who'd defend neo-con trash like Bush, but this is a foolish statement. Bad leader? Yes. Sleazeball opportunist? Yup. Bigot? Yup. Liar liar, pants on fire? Oh yeah.
Terrorist? Nope. Unless he's been blowing himself up on buses and the BBC has been lax in reporting it.
| Quote: |
| 2) Throwing acid in women�s faces? Yeah maybe 0.1% of the population has done this. And I guess murdering your pregnant wife is a great example of American men? (Scott Peterson) |
You do realize that you just tried to justify it, dont you?
| Quote: |
| [3) Yes rape and crime does happen in Pakistan like it happens in countries like the U.S. CANADA and the UK just take a look at those wonderful Catholic priests that molested all of those boys! Wow great example for the rest of the world! |
Huh? Is this a new conversation? What does this have to do with a military dictatorship that's rife with religious wack-jobs building terrorists? |
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ronin
Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| Ronin, I think the difference is that in Pakistan a woman can be proscecuted for BEING raped, and in the Mai case, can be ordered raped as a punishment. You are correct, this is not a everyday standard occurance and is not representative of the views of the majority of Pakistani men, but rape is seen quite differently in Pakistan than in the west in a way which is harmful to women. |
And again I hate to inform you but that case was in a small village and went against Pakistan�s law; my uncle was a lawyer that helped persecute those who put that sentence against that girl and those who raped her. Rape is illegal In Pakistan but sometimes monsters like in the U.S. slip through the cracks! I think you should stop watching FOX news. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| ronin wrote: |
4) In Pakistan women takes the bus with men, they wear jeans and walk around with make up and the latest fashions. |
but do they sit in the same areas on the buses? I know on trains they do not. In a way it is a good thing; spares women from being groped like they are in India.
Ronin, let's be honest. while yes, Pakistan has a lot of liberal, open-minded people, it also has a large number of nutty fundamentalists. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:51 am Post subject: |
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| ronin wrote: |
| my uncle was a lawyer that helped persecute those who put that sentence against that girl and those who raped her. |
since you've thrown this out for consumption (not to mention as at least partial justification for your position) I for one would like to hear more about it. |
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RachaelRoo
Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Location: Anywhere but Ulsan!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| ronin wrote: |
| RachaelRoo wrote: |
| Ronin, I think the difference is that in Pakistan a woman can be proscecuted for BEING raped, and in the Mai case, can be ordered raped as a punishment. You are correct, this is not a everyday standard occurance and is not representative of the views of the majority of Pakistani men, but rape is seen quite differently in Pakistan than in the west in a way which is harmful to women. |
And again I hate to inform you but that case was in a small village and went against Pakistan뭩 law; my uncle was a lawyer that helped persecute those who put that sentence against that girl and those who raped her. Rape is illegal In Pakistan but sometimes monsters like in the U.S. slip through the cracks! I think you should stop watching FOX news. |
Why would you HATE to inform me? That's weird. Oh, were you throwing that in to be condescending? Why? If you are aware of some facts that I'm not, feel free to share. That's what an honest dicussion or debate should be about.
I don't watch Fox news - I don't think it is even available in Korea. At least not with my cable channels.
Your uncle was a lawyer involved in this particular case? What nationality is he, and on what level was he involved? Who is he? Is he Pakistani?
Yes, what happened to Mai is illegal in Pakistan. The men were convicted. Did your uncle tell you anything about how she was gang raped and then forced to walk home naked in front of an entire cheering village? What has he taught you about how women can be proscecuted for adultery if they are raped? At least that's what I've read - is it wrong, or does your uncle have some inside info you could share - minus unnecessary condescention. |
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