Korean Job Discussion Forums

[steelhead]

I realize gord that all recruiters are not crooked.

But the majority will, if given the opportunity, rob you blind. I help my friends/fellow alumni get jobs through a recruiter here. And have never heard one bad thing about working with her. This job can be done right.

However, in these situations, this is hardly on the up and up.

The exact reason that recruiters dont make the arrangement, of you paying them, is because they dont trust us. Not only that, but there is a good chance, once the teacher realizes exactly how much they should be getting paid, and how much the recruiter is making, there will be some complaints attatched with that.

Gord you said you have been told that the reason it works like this is to debunk difficulties of inside problems. They could tell you anything you want as their reasons. Its like Angry coming and saying ... no guys really its true, they told me they have to pay the korean teachers extra... thts what its for.

I talked to my Korean teachers about my situation. They explained they hired her, with out pay. Mostlikely assuming she would make some other way. However, the teachers dont recieve anything extra, that was perfectly clear.

To follow my saga, I spoke to the Korean teachers today, and have sent my recruiter an email. I told her I will not set up the Co account, and taht her 30% commision/per month, is absurd.

That I was open to negotiate a finders fee, but 30% monthly is rediculous.

THats it in a nutshell,.... THis is when the shit is gonna hit the fan.

[ontheway]

This thread is a little confusing. It contains Angrycareb's problem, Steelhead's problem, and some battle centering around Gord on the periphery.

They are all related in this:

Do NOT give your account passbook or pin number to a third party.

The latest post from Angrycareb had a possible good solution, albeit an annoying one. They proposed to transfer all the money to your account and let YOU keep control. This is a reasonable solution except that it will cause you to become a bit of an accountant. If they will work with you and discuss all the issues and go over the numbers with you, this could have a long term advantage for you: you will learn a lot about the inside of this business operation. You will learn about the Korean system, taxes, income and expenses, and paying a Korean worker. You will (hopefully) develop a working relationship with your agent/recruiter. This could help you in the future in looking for jobs. You might also find an advantage in some more creative and financially rewarding contract relationships you could learn to make with a Korean business or hogwan in the future. You might be able to take a more entrepreneurial role, more risk and more responsibility, for a greater piece of the action at some future job. (TANSTAFFL - )

As I said, if they would NOT transfer the money into the account of the other teacher, it is a scam. BUT, this is another option. IF they will actually let YOU keep control of the account, then THEY are trusting YOU. Then they intend to be honest, at least as far as YOUR money is concerned. This could be very good for you, if you don't mind investing about 2-4 hours per month (I'm guessing, and more at tax time maybe) in learning and handling the details. If you try it that way, be sure to be sincere and earn their trust and respect.

I still think this system is too convoluted to be completely honest. There still appears to be a tax reason for it. By keeping control of your own account, and insuring the honesty of your own cash details, you can at least protect yourself enough to keep this job. (I would try it this way.)

The details. You should be getting, by contract, a certain amount of money for pay and overtime less certain contract expenses. Other amounts in your account will be transfered by you to people as indicated by your agent/recruiter. It would be best if you used this account for NO OTHER purpose. Go over the details each month with the agent. Put it all in writing, two signed copies, and then make the transfers. You might have to work on this several times each month. It would be better and easier if you could just make one transfer to them and for them to make the other payments, but that might be too far out of their system for them.

Important: pay yourself only once per month from this Business account. Make one transfer from this account to your regular personal account that you "live out of". Keep your Business account squeaky clean. You'll be proud of being an honest small businessman someday.

You might be back here on Dave's to verify the Inome tax rate (3.5% max for you I'd guess), retirement tax etc. Refer to your original contract and look for tax threads here at Dave's.)

Again, Good Luck. And don't burn any bridges before you cross them.

[ontheway]

Steelhead's problem:

Steelhead seems to have a slightly different problem. There was no mention of paying another teacher. This makes it much simpler.

Again: keep control of your own account. Do not give your agent the passbook or pin number.

But another element creeps in. He thinks the agent is making too much money.

There is no basis for this jealousy. Looking out for number one is what every human being does. Greed is when you want to steal from another. This can be direct theft, indirect theft (ie taxation) or failure to honor your contracts.

Steelhead, I'm in sympathy with you. The two contracts are shady, why did you sign two? and the horrible payment scheme is untenable. You shouldn't give them your passbook or pin number. And your example about murder (or whatever) is good: contracts requiring illegal acts are NOT enforceable in court. But, you agreed to a certain pay, signed, and thought it was OK. So what if the agent is making a good living. Next time you can negociate better.

Try to work out your pay another way, but please don't "cheat" your recruiter. Make sure you get what's yours, never give up control of your account, and pay your recruiter.

[ontheway]

Gord:

Gord keeps making a simple point: collect the money, pay the agent and get a receipt. This is fine. It does take a lot more paperwork, but if the teacher is honest it will work. Gord is right.

But the jist of Angrycareb and Steelhead's problems is that the agent has (wants to have) 100% control, passbook and pin number for their accounts. This is dangerous. If the teacher has no control of the account, there is no way to prevent cash withdrawals or guarantee getting a receipt. And most teachers don't want to be accountants, auditors or businessmen. They just want to teach and get paid.

If the agents set up all their teachers to collect the money, control their own accounts, and then pay the agent, then this would look more honest. But, we know there are many dishonest TEACHERS as well as agents and hogwan owners. Some teachers will surely cheat the agents. So, what to do?

What the agent should do, is collect all the money into his own account or accounts, as needed. Then, the agent should do all the accounting and pay the teachers, the taxes and the other bills.

But THIS system of the agent holding an account in the name of every teacher, is just the kind of suspicious mess that leads to 100% audit review. It always starts out with "wtf is this!? What a mess. OHHHH!! I better take a look at this!" Sometimes it's a bunch of errors. Sometimes it's stupidity. This looks too deliberate. It smells like tax evasion, or some other scam. This system allows the agent to reduce his gross revenues by 75%, 80% or more. As an auditor, I caught many embezzlers. Most took stupid, little amounts of cash. And some tax cheats actually pay MORE than they are legally required to pay. They stupidly cheat and pay more, then they get caught and have to pay fines and penalties on top of the higher amount. This has the same smell.

Now everyone can resume fighting.

[steelhead]

Ontheway,

You seem to be right on top of this whole thing....except, I am in no way trying to cheat anyone. By me giving the school my personal bank account, I am forcing the recruiter to sit down and renegotiate.

The way the contracts were presented, I signed one, then, "oh here, you have to sign this one as well"

Also, I have no problem with people making a good living.
But, for example, This would be the proper way such a transaction should go
Manager: I would like to help you get a job!
Me: Great, I would like XXX job, with X hours, in X location, can you help me?
Man: Sure, no problem, however, we do charge for our service.
Me: Ok, what is the charge?
Man: 29% of your earnings monthly
me: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.... no seriously, what is it?
Man: ok, what do you think is fair
Me: well, I have seen jobs posted with a similar situation, that the manager requests 25% of the first months payment.
Man: Hmmmm, ok deal
Me: Great, I will give you the money as soon as you find me a job.
Man: Great. Lets draw up a contract and get this agreement in writing.
Me: No problem.

If such would of taken place, there would be no problem. As soon as I arrived in Korea, I would of whipped down to the bank, grabbed her 700k, and thats it. In fact she could continue to find me work in othr situations, and we could have the same agreement

However, what really happend was, the agent CREATING her own income. Unknowing of both the school and myself, and on top of that, trying to lie about the way the payment system worked, so she could take this money, with out others knowing, including the tax and revenue agency.

Make an honest living and I will pat you on the back, but try to scam me.....then you get whats coming.

[Gord]

[steelhead]

Sure per hour it pays above average, however, I dont get any benefits whatsoever. No pension, no medical, no paid holidays, no housing, no airfare.... Nothing.

I realize its capitalist system, however, there should be a measure of business ethics involved.

[TheUrbanMyth]

[steelhead]

well, I dont need housing. I dont know the exact legality of the pension, but I only work when school is in, and only get paid thus.

I got my own flight, therefor have control, I like it better. This job provided me with an E2 but that is essentially it.

[some waygug-in]

It seems that this is a recurring problem. I don't recall this happening much before but now it seems like a lot of people are being asked to do this.

So far, according to this thread, 1 person has said they have done this and been OK. I wonder how long they have been working at their job and whether or not they will have the same opinion in a year's time.

Anyway, I sure wouldn't do it.